30 - My Conversation with a Hitman - Sam Harris

This is the conversation I had with a hitman living in India about his life. We discuss the story of how he came to be a hitman and what his life is really like. It is certainly very different to what you see in the movies and be prepared for some big insights.

After the interview, we break down what happened and also discuss things like how I manage to get these interviews and other events in my life like staying with a bunch of drug dealers on the border of Mexico.

Thanks to Andreas Hochlehnert for providing the voice of the Hitman on the podcast and our discussion afterward. And for traveling around the world with me for a year

Listen Here Now:


Direct Transcript of Conversation

[22:53] <Hitman> Hello

[22:53] <Sam> hi *****
[22:54] <Sam> you ****** mate?

[22:54] <Hitman> I know of him. He was in armillaria net a while back

[22:55] <Sam> cool

[22:55] <Hitman> So you interview people?

[22:56] <Sam> yea i interviewed ***** which is how i ended up here. pretty fascinating guy and world in general

[22:57] <Hitman> The world is a messy place lad. On Armillaria we talk about drugs alot, kind of why im where im at right now.

[22:58] <Sam> yea sounds like he ended up in some dark places.
[22:59] <Sam> so you run most of your life on dark side of things or you have legit normal life as well going on?
[22:59] <Sam> (obvs don't tell me about the real life part!)

[22:59] <Hitman> Im sure he told you, i deal drugs and im a hitman

[23:00] <Sam> actually didn't mention the drugs haha

[23:00] <Hitman> They go hand in hand, see if someone fuckes around with orders or payment, they get a bullet in their head

[23:01] <Sam> wow thtas mental
[23:01] <Sam> i hope you give a few moments to think abot things first before the bullet in the head. not much giong back from that
[23:02] <Sam> do a lot of people fuck with orders or payments then?

[23:02] <Hitman> I left USA 4 years ago to come to India, strange i know.,  but how i got into it was a life or death situation
[23:02] <Hitman> I was exited to deal on the dark web, the guy i trusted started stealing thousands of $$$

[23:02] <Sam> man i have so many questions i don't know where to start haha
[23:03] <Sam> so was that back on silk road?

[23:03] <Hitman> I had a choice, put a bullet in his head, or i get one.
[23:03] <Hitman> no this wasnt silk road, but i have met a guy that was a hitman for the
[23:03] <Hitman> them*

[23:04] <Sam> crazy times

[23:05] <Hitman> After that moment i couldent go back, i was made into a hitman, if i didnt do a hit, they would pay the next guy a little more to hit me too

[23:05] <Sam> so i guess you didn't ever expect to end up as a hit man.
[23:05] <Sam> ha cross messages
[23:05] <Sam> so would you say you are kind of unhappy as a hitman then?

[23:06] <Hitman> I would not say im unhappy

[23:07] <Sam> well thats good
[23:07] <Sam> but its not your preffered choice of work then

[23:07] <Hitman> Imagine if someone put a gun to your head and told you to hit some stranger, and after you get $1000
[23:07] <Hitman> usd

[23:08] <Sam> well i'd feel a bit short changed.
[23:08] <Sam> but firstly i'd kill the guy before even thining about the money

[23:09] <Hitman> Your life is better than a few extra zeros.

[23:09] <Sam> yea
[23:09] <Sam> so is that like the average hit price. or just because they had you in a tight place?

[23:09] <Hitman> Most of the hits go for around $1000, there are at least 200 hitman around

[23:10] <Sam> holy shit thats nothing. how are human lives so cheap?
[23:10] <Sam> a funeral is 10x that
[23:10] <Sam> a psychatrist bill also

[23:10] <Hitman> After one hit, you dont feel anything, you feel dead inside.

[23:11] <Sam> ouch
[23:11] <Sam> so you've felt that way since your first hit

[23:12] <Hitman> It was harder with him because i knew him. It haunts me, i still see his face every day

[23:13] <Sam> oh man, How come you were asked to hit him? Naturally i want to know everything about how this happened but if its uncomfortable to talk about don't worry
[23:13] <Sam> also don't mention anything specific of course

[23:15] <Hitman> So he started stealing money from some indian drug lords, our job was to transport druggs and get the cash, he started to steal the money. the drug lords found out and beat us up,  he confessed and when he did, 1 of the 6 other guys gave me a gun and i was told to put one in between his eyes
[23:16] <Hitman> Or we both die
[23:16] <Hitman> It was so they could make me scared and listen to them

[23:16] <Sam> wow, that's intense.
[23:17] <Sam> i hope you don't feel responsible. he shouldn't have risked it and ofcourse they shouldn't of wanted him killed. but yea that's not your fault

[23:18] <Hitman> He even told me to pull the trigger, he looked me in the yes and said we will both die if i dont. those words and his face haunt me. but the other people i hit was easy, i did not know them

[23:18] <Sam> the brain is wierd
[23:18] <Sam> so are they still your employer or do you work freelance?

[23:19] <Hitman> I work for them still, its good pay i get to party hard
[23:19] <Hitman> If i leave they will kill me
[23:20] <Hitman> So i have told you a bit about me, what about you?

[23:20] <Sam> well as long as you still enjoying the partying. i totaly can't deal with hangover anymore and i'm not even 30

[23:21] <Hitman> So do you interview hackers and hitmen?

[23:21] <Sam> i do now haha
[23:21] <Sam> up to now mostly CEO's and nomads and scientist
[23:21] <Sam> yoga gurus
[23:22] <Sam> my mum was first one haha

[23:22] <Hitman> How do you interview them?

[23:22] <Sam> well actually technically first one was ceo of an uber for prostitutes app that me an my mate were doing the same style business and i wanted to know more. but then i decided i liked interviewing
[23:23] <Sam> Normally we sit in a room together and record an audio chat for a podcast
[23:23] <Sam> i am actually going to india next month if you want to meet in a random location that is in no way related to where you live
[23:24] <Sam> but also just text interview is more than interesting enough

[23:24] <Hitman> Is this podcast online?

[23:24] <Sam> im going to north korea in two weeks to do some interviews there
[23:24] <Sam> yes

[23:26] <Hitman> We can meet, location will have to be in a moving car
[23:26] <Hitman> In a busy area

[23:26] <Sam> i was thinking maybe just write a blog or find a friend to read out your side of chat transcript and release as a podcast. but that would be awesome

[23:26] <Hitman> What is your podcast?

[23:26] <Sam> well i'm visiting bangalore and new delhi
[23:26] <Sam> growthmindsetpodcast.com

[23:28] <Hitman> I will be in touch.

[23:28] <Sam> i have no interest in publishig anything you don't want me to and you know who i am now. so yea totally up to you
[23:28] == No such nick/channel: Hitman


[23:39] <hitman> Had to put a face to your name, and also wanted to see if you were a fed. https://imgur.com/a/K38Ea
[23:54] <hitman> You there or am i just typing to no one?
[23:54] <hitman> Sam
[23:59] <Sam> shit sorry i thought you logged out. my bad. yea anonops interface still a bit new. but anyway i guess you know who i am now

[23:59] <hitman> when do you get to india?
[00:00] <Sam> april. so a while
[00:00] <hitman> Sounds good
[00:01] <Sam> i guess i'd like to know a bit more about how secure this is to meet otherwise maybe anonymous audio chat is fine
[00:01] <hitman> I picked a moving car incase you try something. If you bring me to a room it could also be wired
[00:02] <Sam> I guess that works for your side,  but equally i need to know that your ocmpletely safe and that you never get discovered for having interview with me as maybe we both get killed
your employer sounds mental. what if they are watcing you?

[00:04] <hitman> They cant

[00:04] <Sam> i guess i don't want to ever know anything about them or you in terms of specifics. but still how would they know you didn't say something you shouldn't have
can you explain the process a bit more of how they can't just to put mind at rest

[00:05] <hitman> We are talking on IRC, its only us in this room.

[00:05] <Sam> yea but i mean if they ever have you followed in real life

[00:06] <hitman> They would only do that if they arre having bad thoughts, and so far so good

[00:07] <Sam> okay. well i don't want to be another person you end up having to put a ullet in their head is there any way i can protect myself further without giving any risk to you

[00:08] <hitman> Worst case is we are driving and someone tries a drive by.I can say im meeting with a friend, and they will believe me

[00:09] <Sam> okay and the normal people they kill are generally indian drug related people or have they killed tourist before

[00:10] <hitman> Could be anything, i dont know details.

[00:10] <Sam> ahhh well if your cool with things we can keep talking and work out general thigns that are safe and not safe to mention and work out best plan for potential meeting.  i worked in bbc for a while so was gonna get some advice on that anyway. so will ask if they have any tips so the interviewee and interviewer can both stay safe

[00:14] <hitman> We could do that. if i give you a location of a hit you should go near it, but stay away from people becuse bullets can fly. have your camera ready
[00:14] <Sam> ha i'm happy to stay very underground. what if i get an image of you though?

[00:15] <hitman> No, we meet in a moving car, and im wearing a motorbike helmet.
[00:15] <Sam> okay
[00:16] <hitman> If you see my face, whats going to stop you from telling anyone?
[00:16] <Sam> well the fact you could kill me is a strong deterrant. but i'd rather just not see your face.
[00:17] <hitman> I was meaning after the meet.
[00:16] <Sam> have you ever told your story before? 
[00:17] <hitman> I have told my stories on irc before. there are a lot like me. Worse, people who also do it for fun It can be almost like a high
[00:19] <Sam> yea i can imagine it feels pretty amazing in some way looking at people and knowing you can just kill them. 
[00:20] <hitman> Its crazy, your finger just needs to move a few centermeters and someone is dead.
[00:19] <Sam> fuck thats weird  have you ever killed someone you wern't contracted to?

[00:20] <hitman> Yes i have, sometimes if they are also in crowded areas, they duck with everyone else, some people are unlucky to catch a bullet
[00:21] <Sam> shit

[00:22] <Sam> have many people ever managed to get away from your employers after they've decided to order a hit?

[00:23] <hitman> Do you mean escape a hit?
[00:23] <Sam> yes.

[00:24] <hitman> If someone is willing to pay, they will always find the person.
[00:25] <Sam> so basically don't piss them off end of story.
 which is fine by me
[00:26] <hitman> People get hit for cheating on partners. hitmen prices are about $1000-10k. There are over 400 hitmen
[00:26] <Sam> jeeze.  I thought hit men would be paid like 100k to 1mill and be flying on jets around the world with hidden identities. So I guess i was wrong. Are all hits usually within the country your in?
[00:27] <hitman> High profile people cosk $50k-100k
[00:27] <hitman> I do it here
[00:29] <Sam> has anyone ever asked you to kill donald trump
[00:29] <hitman> Haha no
[00:29] <Sam> i'm surprised. i know friends who are convinced he;ll be assassinaetd before end of first term.  what do you think the price would be for him

[00:30] <hitman> His suit is also bullet proof, and his tie. a price like that would be in the millions

[00:31] <Sam> yea i thought
[00:32] <Sam> don't disclose who or anything but can you vaguelly decsribe the most high profile hit you've ever done
[00:32] <hitman> Lawyers and judges
[00:34] <Sam> shit. messing with law seems dangerous. do you think you could do something like that in a first world country like the US or australia?

[00:35] <hitman> No, it would be a lot harder. But i do want to go to australia, gold coast
[00:37] <Sam> okay thats kind of reassuring to nkow that the whole world isn't still up for the taking. do you think your industry will die out in maybe 20 years time as india etc.. joins first world level of order?
[00:39] <hitman> Maybe, its just a really messed up country
[00:39] <Sam> has it changed much whilst you've been there?
[00:40] <hitman> Only been here 4 years. not much
[00:40] <Sam> fair. and did you want to go to gold coast to work same job or to live the chill life?
[00:41] <hitman> haha live the chilled life
[00:43] <Sam> nice. think they'lll ever let you go?
[00:43] <hitman> I know how to get hidden
[00:44] <Sam> my friend gave me some great advice once that if your asked to do a job you don't want to do you should just pretend you want to do it but be really shit. but this applies more to when your mum asks you to do the ironing or something
[00:44] <hitman> Hahaha
[00:44] <Sam> can you explain the process of getting hidden?

[00:45] <hitman> no social media, no phone, no lapotp or email, nothing tracing back to you online
[00:47] <Sam> so your not going to launch a podcast anytime soon then
[00:48] <hitman> Haha cant do that
[00:49] <Sam> re: podcast. pretty sure it would be a super fascinating listen.
but man no laptop would suck. the future is only going ot be more digital. So you wouldn't get like facial reconstruction or new passport and stuff?

[00:49] <hitman> Wouldent go that far
[00:50] <hitman> We will see, i know who you are
[00:51] <hitman> Not threatening you by the way
[00:51] <hitman> Just meaning i could contact you to meet up again
[00:55] <Sam> oh cool. well yea youcan find my twiter and instagram and email but not sure you'd ever want to link your personal life to me
[00:56] <hitman> Of course
[00:56] <Sam> but yea figured i might as well trst you so you know who i am otherwise likely wouldn't get far in chatting
[00:56] <Sam> do you have any kind of schedule or are things just random?
[00:57] <hitman> Stick to a schedule
[00:57] <Sam> so you guys hve like a mornign shift hitman and an evening shift hitman?
[00:57] <hitman> Oh i though yo ment drugs haha
[00:58] <hitman> no hitman isnt often
[01:00] <Sam> oh right smooth  yea good point wanted to ask how often do you do a hit on average.
[01:01] <hitman> in 3 years i had 14 hits
[01:03] <Sam> okay. so not like a super regular thing. but still quite a few
were they failry evenly spaced out like every three months or kind of random. like 3 in one week then none rest of the year?

[01:12] <hitman>  it happens all the time here so many killings, but with me some were months appart, and i had 2 in one day

[01:13] <Sam_> i worked oil rigs for a while. after about 8 days i kind of forgot what real life was like is was a really strange headspace.
after a while do you sort of feel like you forget what its like to kill if it has been ages? or does it never leave you?

[01:17] <hitman> never leavs you I have to go. i will be on in a few hours

[01:18] <Sam_> okay well i won't be online then


Round up conversation - Unedited Transcript

So what would your top tips in that episode be?

Uh, well want up to would be like be careful online and maybe don't share your personal details.

Yeah. Not quite straight away just seems right. I would definitely say, um, don't get caught up in drugs in India before you end up having to kill your friend. Exactly really crazy. I'm probably always pay. Yeah, definitely someone asks you for some money. And if you bought some drugs or something just give them the money.


I'm related name. I like a week ago some guy that came at me super stressed out like give me a five give you a fiver like this big gash in his head and like I was like, oh go away you're creeping me out. Um, but somehow I kind of ended up talkin to him and I calmed him down and um because it has like five minutes to pay some gangster you haven't paid enough money to and I actually just gave him a five.

I was like, okay deal with your life. But um, yeah, some people are pretty horrible. That was just in London. Yeah, he was like stressing out in like I kind of tried to teach him some sales because he was just like doing it completely wrong. We like no one was going to give him any money. I felt kind of sorry for him.

So I was like dude don't that creepy people out and stress them when you're on the street try and be a bit nicer in like No One's Gonna want to help you. Yeah, that was weird and the five of doesn't seem like much money for whatever it was. Yeah, I mean can't you just go and work for like half an hour somewhere and write did seem a bit odd?

But yeah, it was like I mean, I had nearly all the money but just not quite like a death and so them cases like beat the shit in to me yesterday. And now I'm gonna kill me. If I don't give them the Spy was like yeah of. Seems like haven't like I've got the I got the game. It's okay. Like I think he was legit.

Yeah, that was my Steed for the day. Um 


anyway back to uh, After lessons for the podcast.

 Um, yes don't don't get into the world of Hitman and life is crazy cheap like a thousand dollars for one hit nothing. Can India become crazy. Yeah, and even like yeah and even lawyers and judges. Yeah, yeah reminds me more of like where we came from when you read books like sapiens and stuff of how humans sort of work and things and like we should have a society like that UK and us which well the first world where things are a bit more structure than stop you from doing that.

But when left or in devices then people just yeah kill each other in a pretty. Well, yeah, I don't know what happened when you're in India, but trying to get a train through one point and it was just Mass riots in the town. They couldn't do it and then people being shot and killed and stuff imagine that luckily.

I never experienced something like that for India. It's kind of weird. Um any other top tips? 

Yeah, maybe it's interesting. Well, maybe you can give some tips in how you actually get in contact with it and without revealing any detail. So I got in contact with them via a Anonymous IRC chat room for people to hang out and the specific one.

I was on. Uh a chat room all about drugs and that's I guess where he was talkin about drugs and stuff on there. And um, yeah, it's just weird corner of the dark web and says long like tour in this weird area with my own Anonymous chat in no one really would speak to me but I got introduced to him specifically.

Um, my my friend and uh, yeah, How are you ended up talkin, but I haven't really done much else there because if I haven't got any you need to be like, um in the podcast before when I was talkin to the hacker. You need to be in these networks for a while for people to trust you. So I can't really just go in and talk to anyone about anything.

So just sort of ends. Not just me. And if I said have shared the details of my website or something that I'll probably end up with like my website being taken down, you know something bad. I don't really feel like getting into sort of recklessly say maybe if I can build some reputation I could find some more mental people, but I think I remember when we recorded it feeling quite like I was on the dangerous side of a cliff.

Maybe I couldn't get back kind of things as like. Yeah, maybe I can't get back to the normal world. If I go too far down this route and then sort of now after a few months as a completely forgotten about that feeling but it is like tempting to I would love to do more um journalism in that area and do some crazy sort of interviews with awesome people because it's super fun and hopefully meet some people doing courtship.


 whereas in the u.s. I ended up staying uh at night in a house with a bunch of drug dealers. By accident that was quite fun. 

 I was trying to find in the organic farm to work on and those in California regardless. Yeah, and so I knocked in these guys doors trying to I gave him the name is from they had no idea what I was talkin about, but it was like really late and I was lost and they're like, oh you just stay here tonight.

And then so the they're gonna go out because put a ton of drugs to get high with us. I was like, um, Okay, maybe I was like 19 and I'm getting high quite often to that point then some people came and then they they bought drugs and they left and was like, oh, yeah. Yeah, we drug dealers it's fine, but you shouldn't go anywhere else because it's stupid dangerous around here man.

Stay with us. It's fine. And yeah, basically there was just like you have to stay the night because of it's so dangerous here. I'm like, okay, this is sort of odd because. You're like the dangerous people that I should be being protected from is what I'm normally told but you seem really nice and I'm sure anyone else that means probably really nice as well based on this assumption.

But yeah, that's funny. Wow. Yeah. Yeah work with the morning. And the first thing they do is just like have a beer and have another joint was like, whoa. Okay, I'm gonna start driving friends of them on Facebook. Then that's guys. Oh really? Yeah funny. Shit Legend night. Ah cool. 

 quite interesting actually how much um people can ya get to know about you just over the Internet like when they get your website account like check.

Uh, I think they also get to address right because uh of your domain. Yeah. Things. Yeah, it's kind of worried. It might have data and trails that you have just around everything you do is kind of freaky should be the mention that you can get your address if you're the main because oh yeah on the mail.

I run a marketing system. If you understand the me a postcard first one will be refer so that be fun for you. Nice to read yeah with the easiest and I'm gonna email you can send me a postcard. So that's cool. Yeah, but only yeah, obviously, let me a real postcard like handwritten. That's that takes too long.

Yeah. Yeah, but like over the whole year 20 postcards. We just had a lot kid. But yeah Ferguson 20 cards a month that all my friends have once I have more than 20 friends, but like I don't know message in like pay for and stuff just takes a long to like get all the postcards from writing them a meaningful message.

Let's really nice process to do but when you're trying to interview hit man. Do other things all the same time, you know, pretty busy. 

Yeah, cool.  and how did you meet the guy who introduced you to the chat and the Hitman? 

Um, yes, so basically staying in a hostel and turns out beside the guy in our room was um, Or we have this like really crappy internet Network and you you only had like 100 megabytes or something before you got kicked off and you only had like 100 megawatts per night, but this guy was a hacker and he just sort of hacked onto the Wi-Fi so he could just get unlimited Wi-Fi and his he was just talkin about that.

And so I talked to me a bit more about the hacking and then found out that he'd done things like stealing Bitcoin and other stuff was like, holy crap. So first thing I did was shut my PC down and everything. I didn't trust him at all. I did ask to do a podcast with him and then turns out we then had the podcast it.

On the show last week and he was really cool guy and nice people and doesn't steal Bitcoin or and the think say malicious anymore and doesn't ever do anything bad with people who vaguely know him at all as well. So that's makes it easier to trust him.  then he showed me some other cool hacks and things actually the podcast and he introduced me to  his hit man because he thought he'd be a really interesting person to interview basically.

 well answer the question was. Traveling through your hostels and finding people that seem to have any kind of something weird about them and getting to know them more which is kind of how everyone the podcast of just people that just seem to have something really different to anything.

I know about and just being nosey and asking to find more about them. Yes, so we recorded this podcast. In the hostel room as well recorded. We I had this conversation in the hospital room after the hacker had left and um, yeah, it's really late at night that he actually came online which is why I said I wasn't going to be online when he came back as yeah.

I was going to stay up until four am sorry the podcast would have been good. I just assumed they were. Got two more but um, yeah, it was really really tense because of we actually had to wait for him to type. He was quite slow at typing in so we had to read it the transcript to make it to the flow better because of his actually like those MSN chats are what's that's where everything sort of like you have different conversations going on at the same time.

Um, but yeah, it's super tense because of obviously have never spoken to a hit man before and I'm just like, holy shit. This guy kills people for like a thousand dollars. Oh my God. Oh my God and dress for my shoulder the. Time that was the verb my God, I can't believe this is happening. Wow. Do you like having like an existential crisis in the middle of this room in the pitch-black?

And then there's this other like American dude half trying to sleep and then that's sometimes getting interested in being quite annoying. It's pretty funny because you're what he was doing. But yeah, it's a weird guy. He's the one who was like, yeah, big One's Gonna Be A Hundred K. They easily next year and obviously it's not 100K yet.

He was funny definitely not a good person for advice on their investment. Probably not. Yeah. He definitely gave a hacker quite a lot of advice on investment. Yeah, that's strange. Yeah,  really that misfire? And yeah, I think I've ever sweated so much by you hugging me for just like I'm so sweaty.

Oh, uh, yeah, and then the American used heels like questions. What's happening nothing. Just sleep. Okay. Oh, yeah. Wow, you guys are right. I mean we're fine. Yeah good times.  


Yeah. Yes weird that the it's like, you know get your never see like Jason Statham movies and you think I hit man, they're like, he's crazy people that they've got their life sword.

Sleep of rich in yes, I chose to do that. Like they were born to do something. They play on private jets and he's like, oh it was a complete fuckup and I don't even get paid very much and they live in India and kind of party a bit or a lot. Like wow, that is not at all what I had in my head of it.

Man, and just how wrong the movies are a really big insight to be fair. 

Absolutely and also the story like how he got into that. Yeah, it makes complete sense of how you get into being a hit man. Like no one would choose to really do that when I guess maybe his actual employers would also perhaps have been hit man themselves maybe but makes sense actually because otherwise yeah when you think about it like no one does.

Then it wouldn't work. Great. Yeah. Yes. Someone's got to start like you fuck me over. I put a bit in your head or you become a hit man for me. But either way someone's got to do a hit. Yeah. Definitely. You think you thought about the psychology around it and you've watched all these movies and stuff and turns out they're all completely wrong.

So yeah, I had that hit first on the growth mindset podcast. 

I interesting to talk to this other like few hundred Hitman around the world and actually make some statistics. Yeah, I guess and make like. Information about it so many crazy like stories you could right? Yeah. So interesting. Yeah.

Yeah, but I also find interesting is um that like the fear of getting killed forces you to do things. Like, you know, it's yeah, it's like nothing. And that sounds like you just know that these people might kill you. I mean probably you can be certain but like that's enough probably they don't even or didn't even know.

I don't know why I didn't just say they probably don't even need to pay pay your money. Actually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah the fact that some people just like doing it. He has another house. I would like to talk to some. Serial killers in jail or something to see what the hell's going and people's minds kiss.

Yeah, that's like psychology understanding people better, I guess. Yeah. It's kind of to know what actually happened to them that they like. Yeah. Yeah started doing that. All right, it's just like I can't I just can't conceptualize it. Yeah, like know more about like what his offer was originally to come and start dealing drugs and things and ways doing before but yeah, maybe I try and get in tortoise and more drug dealers and she do.

Go a bit higher up because then obviously if they actually don't mind me talkin about it, then that's okay. Whereas talkin to him. I was a bit worried that they'd find out he was talkin about it and there'd be a problem. But if you go right at the top and sort of it's fine. It's kind of funny just the same way when I'm trying to talk to a business or something if I talked to like the receptions are going to say, oh, I'd love to talk to your CEO.

They're like, absolutely not. I'm known far too busy. Not at all. If I talk to the CEO. Oh, yeah, I'd love to do a podcast. That's great. Let's make some time in the calendar will be great awesome podcast and you're like, why are people not letting me talk to the important person? So yeah, it's funny.

Definitely. So maybe it's the same for drug dealers. Maybe they like to tell a story. Yeah. Yeah. The only scary part is that uh, he mentioned that they're guys who actually like killing people. So yeah, it's a problem that makes an easy target then but if you do know a drug dealer or if you are a drug dealer do you get in touch with me?

My name is Sam Harris, uh, Sam Harris tweets on Twitter. Um, yeah, definitely open for a podcast doing some very anonymous. Some. Journalism, if some sort would be great,


okay anyway to hit man, um.  What would you do if I was stealing drugs? And then you were told you had to kill me. 

Wow, that is pretty hard. I mean, it's really it's super hard to imagine how it would be in that situation. Um, obviously everyone has like if you pretend this is a. And now you're putting this gun at my forehead.

I would definitely pull the trigger seeing your face is like fuck you annoying. Yeah, um, but now it's it's a super intense experience. I can't I can't even like imagine how it feels like to be yeah before like when you should have. Play fighting with someone a little bit annoyed. You just kick them harder than you mean to or something.

And then you're like oh shit. I shouldn't have done that. Yeah, because you like really hurt them. Yeah, and you can't get back and it feels bad but with a gun or a knife or something, it's just like I don't know. I've never know. Yeah, what is like that really really really hurt or kill someone?

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, that's pretty intense. But like from a rational point of view. It doesn't make a difference. Right? Like if you don't pull the trigger, they will kill both of you so he will die. Yeah. But knowing that you did it as just like yeah, I appreciate pretty fact that well on the that lovely night.

Maybe we've had enough talkin. Yeah, I think the advice still stands don't deal drugs don't deal drugs don't steal cash from people that deal drugs. Um and just be very polite to them if you ever want to record an interview, I'm sorry, the books, uh shantaram is a very good book about a man from Australia who goes to India and start stealing drugs and is a very beautifully written story despite being stupidly long.

Um, but yeah, if you like this kind of thing, then that seems like a very topical book to read otherwise. Yeah, we haven't got any other books to recommend because I didn't have chance to ask him about them. I'd love to ask a hit man what he reads every interesting. Absolutely. And yeah, that's about it for the episode next week.

I should be doing an episode all about meditation and the pastner and my time spending 10 days, uh meditating without any Tech or not even any paper or a pen. Just me and my brain. And a cushion which became very uncomfortable. Um, and yeah some amazing insights into life and positivity and how to deal with everything ever, uh will be yours, uh stayed on to you courtesy of myself next week.

So listen to that if you're into some more experimental growth mindset things a bit more on top of the great mindset than the one about Hitman and cool have a lovely week