29 - Stealing Bitcoins and Hacking World Banks - Anonymous


We dive into the world of the dark web to talk to an anonymous hacker, about his life and the incredible stories within.

From issues growing up in South Africa to stealing Bitcoin over public wifi or even from people at home. We hear about the world banks hack of 2017 and discuss his new ethical hacking pursuits and how he transitioned into life on the legal side of things.

This is an eye-opening episode into the vulnerabilities and security risks we leave ourselves open to, especially with all the issues around data these days.

Listen Here Now:


Raw Messy Unedited Interview Transcript

Welcome to the growth mindset podcast. Thank you pleasure to have you here. So,  um, I just met you here in my hospital room and find out that you're a hacker and you done cool shit with Bitcoin and Wi-Fi dresses and  yeah, I've made one night to myself.

So whenever you say something to ask but how so everything you're gonna say a lot of cool shit and I'm just going back. Wow, that's amazing and then just move on and go actually maybe I should work out what it is. You actually just said um and yeah in general tell you what's going on the podcast.

So we like to find cool people that do stuff. Interesting to people that maybe they haven't heard of and find out like how they actually do it and people might get into these things. So first lie, I guess it would be nice to have a bit of an introduction about you.


 All right me, um, originally I was from South Africa parents came here to the crime rate horrible guns pointing almost every day.

Sorry came up that live came here and it's been great New Zealand Suicide full of it, um left country and then you started doing unsafe things. I wouldn't call it unsafe. It was more. I don't really have much to do because you know, I've been described as having a special so I'm not really social.

Yeah, so my best friend is my computer since we got to New Zealand. I got a computer and pretty much spend every single day on it learning how to program learning a create website. And from there, um, I also most dipped at because he works like I was at 11 at the time. I asked him if it was possible to hack into the computers because I wanted to hack into my school computers to get the test results.

Yeah, and he said that it's impossible. So I thought fuck you I'm gonna try and do it every single day. I've been trying to learn the good growth meant to attitude. I can't do this. I'm gonna do it. Anyway. Yeah nice. 


So, can you tell me how you broke until you. School Peter's at the time. I didn't I wasn't able to break into the school computers because I was still learning.

Yeah, you know, I didn't even know what network was no idea how to even connect to remote computer. Yeah, so you didn't actually break in the Scoobies, but you were started learning more about hacking and things. Yeah, and that so my my first actual not really hackers. It's really it's a shit hack.

It's called a DDOS attack 89 service. That was my first one I did. Um what that does is brings down websites practically just floods away site with. Any request certain hand always request that one such shuts down. 


Okay, and how do you go about setting up bed another surface attack? Um, I've got right now I've programmed in Python and essentially what it does is it refreshes the page a thousand times per second.

Now if you imagine a box, right you lining up for a bus stop and these five people there the bus comes those five people easily got get onto the yeah, just like a website. No, denial of service attack is putting a thousand people there. So not even can get on the bus. So if you had a back of the line, you're not going to get on cool.


Okay, like wondering like  if you're a magician or something like the magic circle if you're in you're in like, what would be the level? Is there like a certain thing that once you've had done this hack your in circle of hackers? Would it be like this valid service attack that to be able to call yourself a hacker or some people some people, um call themselves Hackers from the denial of service attacks.

See I've been with Anonymous International hacker group for about five six years now and the first attack that they launched was 89 tack on the web servers of Scientology. And so people that we're not hackers the know anything that they were doing. We gave them a program and that program was low orbit ion cannon and because they didn't really know how to cap.

They weren't using a VPN so their IP wasn't masked. So even though they're able to bring down the website in a successful hack their of Court. Yeah. It didn't know how to stay secure. So it's a it's hard to say when you're in. Yeah when you're in is even hacking for amount of years. And you haven't called.


Yeah, okay at the Rennie circles within the hackers like have used to have had like anonymously emailed me like, oh you've been packing for so long we've if you should come join us or something now, see how I got and well that was it was with Scientology started on Reddit. Yeah people posting because I read it it can post not under your real name.

So it comes as an honor. So that's where it all started and shortly after we met an RC Channel which is an instant relay chat. So you can about thousand hackers at once or on the IRC Channel talkin to each other from August and that's when we were planning all the exact cool. So once you're in that Circle, you know, it's pretty yeah.


Um, so if you're a spy or something working for an agency like the CIA any won't stop people hack would it be a good place to be on Reddit and peten be another hacker and try and get into these groups? Um, if you working for spy agency trying to stop hacks. Yeah, I would assume, you know, you don't see you wouldn't need to do that.

Okay, but as in to see what the next hack is coming in to be inside those great Panic, right? Yeah. Um, that is a good idea to see what people coming up with. Yeah. Is it is it hard to trust other people even when they say there are hackers online different. You could have a five-year-old gone.

Yeah and say he's done. That and you just don't know whether to believe them up.


 Yeah, the use any screening questions till I get people to prove who they are before you trust them with other think or you just have no trust and we don't have trust the trust comes with being with an arms for a while.

So he gets you know, we have handle so now we use fake names online. So you start to get an idea of how that person like, what's your life? There's name so you can build trust with them. It's just a few new and you go into the IRC Channel. No one will trust you if you knew any gone to the. And you say hey guys, let's do this normal dog show but if you've been with them if you helped him out, and if they know they can trust you then you can do stuff for that.


Yeah. So if you're new and you're join and you aren't too sure about what you're doing How likely is it? Someone will give you an idea that the end up with you being hacked like a oh, how do I do this and then sort of. You some software that actually I've done for okay. Can you tell me how that happened?

Um, so there's multiple ways you can make them go to phishing website. Yeah. So for example, you can tell them to check out this news website. So there you go and type in that address, but it takes them to a fake Facebook. This is please log in to Facebook to continue this to the side. Yeah, and then they log on under the last word and the movie.

They don't know how that works. Are they be able to tell fishing site from an actual site here? It's funny. 


Um, okay so about tracking a bit. So what then took you in the process from first, I'd learning about hacking at school to them where you are now. Well, what's a I guess the next stage of you started learning a bit then at school you carried on doing the rest of school and then I dropped out of school, um, because you know, I was a high school we learning about English and maths and always irrelevant subjects and in my head.

I wanted to be an artist so high school wasn't cutting it for me. I didn't learning so I dropped out and spend every day learning program and gotha easy drop out I dropped out. Okay, and you just started making money online instantly. Um, I started off with having people haven't PayPal accounts.

Yeah. Um, just so I got money that way and then it got to a point where I was like a lot of my mates were getting arrested like for example, one of the guys at the police station anybody sent to jail and after that I thought I could go to jail next week if I wrong so that's when I started coming along the lines of.

I can approach companies and still have them but then secure them stay secure so they can not get hat. 


Okay, so so, how did your friend get caught for hacking into a police station when you join a network, right? You'll find has what we call a MAC address and a MAC address is pretty much like a fingerprint.

So it lies. So when he acted please Network he's designed mattress. So he broke onto the network and the DHCP server logged his map. So that's how they were able to find him. To see what type of phone was used to do the Hat. Yeah, and then I don't know how they did in the end. But because of that Mac address they went to his house, um tested his router to see if they had the same Mac address.

Yeah, and obviously it did so that's how they got the proof. So if he wanted to do that again, could he change the way he did it to himself? 


So for example, I can clone your Mac address right now go and have to place web services. And then you'll get rich okay, uh to someone that doesn't know much about what does that mean?

Exactly? So cloning a metrics. How do you explain what are you connected? For example, this network here at the backpack is it's called is n Boots. So you can and then you type in the code to have internet access when you talk on that code. It sends it to the PHP server and that server recognizes your Mac address, which is your fingerprint.

Yeah, just to clarify Mac addresses any computer not actually your Apple Market address. It's anything so your phone will have. Yes computer will have its own Mac address. It's all different i, d like you have a passport. I have a passport. Yeah, it's essentially this thing. Yeah, because um technically known that kadhi won't get duplicate of Mac address.

They're all different, but you can't. Yeah, and how you do that for example in this network this how we can get free internet is if you join the network and if you type in your code to have internet the DC HP server recognize that code and see if okay Mac address your has a gig of data. Yeah. What I can do is scan the network, see what connected to the network and also its Mac address.

So I can pick up your Mac address then join the networks of the network things. I'm your lies and I've been cool when you pay that don't require a natural path. This is Mark address you have you have like just a limit. Like if you're in the right you have a minute for you in the app or some you know, you can just put a random new Mac address on your things.

So you just fake it. Yeah, and that's easier than scanning for other people. Yes, um reason why you're scared. If you pay for yeah, yeah, that's really cool because quite often you late in train stations, and they had like a paid for services like a limited. He painted actually hurt the person and then you have like way better than them.

I'm gonna learn to do that. Cool. Thanks. It's really simple. Yeah. Nice. Maybe I'll put that in the night. 


 okay. So anyway back to the story friends are getting arrested and you try getting scared. What do you think that you've ever come really close to getting caught? I wouldn't have a clue.

I posted an anonymous video a couple years ago on YouTube. It was related to a politician called Peter done and it was basically see his son worked with the synthetic drugs. So he was a lawyer. So we had this idea that Peter would legalize marijuana because his son would lose profit. So we posted a video to Peter Dunne and at the time the kid in hospital Alex wins, and he was in an induced coma hear something wrong with this.

Something happened in this brain ended up dying but his family wanted him to get medical cannabis as the last result it just to try it out sure. And um, so we posted a video to Peter Dunne saying hey you either give it to us or expect expect to be happy. Yeah. Anyway, um, Alex got medical cannabis and um, I went to pitted on the following day place will backbenches politicians used to do radio TV interviews.

And um, because I knew he didn't know I posted the video. I asked him Xena and he said yes. Pass into the gcsb which is the NSA. Yeah. It was pretty fucked up. So that's the closest I would say. I've been caught the gcsb have a video I posted and it's me and you instantly after about it. Yeah, sometimes putting yourself in plain view can be kind of protected, but you think if no one else.

Even knows about this video. Well, it has posted online but still so no one knew me. Yes the whole idea and I posted the end so they couldn't trace it back. 


Okay, and then you did just say all the specifics and now spoken about it on the podcast you worried about then releasing that if he ever listened to this I could just not good point.

Okay, don't you feel right? Have you gone a lot into him legal? So have you done a lot of like legal research just acid. See how to protect yourself specifically say, you know what you can and can't say when talkin about things. No, absolutely not. Okay. Uh, does that worry you that I can talk about hacking all day and if you have done and you can go to the police for example and tell them everything.

Yeah, at least no way that they can prove that back to me sure. For example. Um, yeah, I can do a hack from your Mac address and please erase the board. Yeah. Okay, but what if you done something crazy theories that say admitted to um, The person that stuxnet or something seepage and then they the CEO like which is gonna like arrest this guy and even if you haven't got evidence or I guess you just haven't done nothing really matter to baby.


This is no question. There's no I have done stuck since I have done Ransom way. Yeah. Um, not me personally, I'll coded ransomware until USB stack that acts as a keyboard. Wow. So I saw that to a guy with a brain tumor up and new planets now, I'm the only one that's all the to him was he has a family?

Yeah, and you know he wants. Leave this bit money. Okay. So I was like fuck it. I can sell you some sandwich. That's kind of like Robin Hood. I guess I was crazy. So a day after I sold it to him the new stuff that you can have a look. Yeah. He lost on a taxi. So yeah, taxi service got hit with the ransom.

Hi gram. Wow, that's cool. Uh, what was the name of that website stuff? Yeah stop. Okay. So if you Google, um stuff taxi, yeah, it'll come up that was stuff. Not stuff. Yes. Cool.


 Okay, I'll do that. Um, all right, so now going forwards what are you doing? So you say you now run a ethical hacking business?

Yeah. So, um since my friend got arrested in the police, I thought you know, the next one could be me. I do one little mistake and it's the thing about hacking is it's not hard to it's more hottest thing. Staying here. So you could just add one small slip-up or for example, you could be taking down a website and if you're reaping disconnects and you still watching an attack, they got your IP address.

Yeah, so anything could happen and then you can get sent to jail sure. So I started thinking I still love hacking like I'm really good at it. So why don't I try and use it for something good. So I started a company called Ice T and Z which is information security training. So what we do is we audit companies and we have them like a black so we do anything we can to gain.

To the server's their appearance or the website and if we do we wear tell them how we are able to access and how they can stay secure. Yeah sounds much better for Humanity. 


 do you have the idea of example client or did anyone. Steve a small super vague, um one example Klein it was actually a company used to work for call the Kingston.

Um, okay. It's a brothel but I was in I was in there I was doing there I t-shirt that was installing the cameras and whatnot. But the thing is with that company that managed local manager. Yeah, his wife actually own the company, but the guy he pretended to run it so he told me he was a man. Yeah, I was like, whatever.

But turns out he was using the company's money to buy himself crack. So he soon got fired and his he he was the admin the website. He thought it'd be a good idea to say that the company was closed. So we didn't get any customers. So I was the guy who had that into that website stole it back from him pull him out.

Yeah. Yeah. Everybody's happy. Yeah, so that's a good client. Yeah, then that's like a typical typical client is. You know, we have a sales team in Wellington and they got two companies and say hey is your company secure and most of the time they say yet and they say well we can have free and if we're able to hack you will challenge you to to patch the vote ability.

Yeah. Okay cool and have you tried doing that many big companies like it not being anything cool. Um, what's cool about a lines is you can just hack it for fun like, you know those little TV. At the back of the seat. Um, I plugged in the USB and was able to get Facebook open on the screen. Okay?

Yeah. Nice. Um, yeah


 Evans often you like you'll set on an airline and it will come up with a price you actually want to get this and then you talk about it and get like half an hour later in the process like twice the price fuck. Is there a way to um, get back to the original price or even a cheaper price.

There's not a way to make the server go back but what you can do. Use programs like for example, but sweet and what that does is it intercepts whatever you do. So for example, if you press search fly, sorry, if you book a fly I see it was 200 dollar tickets in Wellington and then you Place book and then the page will refresh the another page.

But before it does that all that data is gone through that program burps week and you can edit every field that it has so you can say OK the price originally was 200 by to be too. So of things it's two dollars. Yeah, so you're not changing anything on the survey you just changing what gets posted back.

Okay, and that works sometimes um, it won't work on just an example. Yeah, how you how you do it happy that you have to edit the data before it gets in. Just think um, okay. 


So you say you now have a company so you how many employees if you've got I've got to at the moment. How do you go about creating?

That's the thing? I never really thought of it. I actually met this guy. Yeah and Wellington, he's an old guy and he said he was going to an interview. Here's the sales agent and I was like, well if you can sell how I try to go out. Yeah, and I'm turns out his massive customer base. Yeah. So, um, he's really my main guy and then I've got this other guy Jake.

He's my best friend. He helped out a lot as well. Going France companies asking them about their websites. Okay. Also in terms of your great strategist getting more sales people see yeah, that's what I'm planning. I originally came down to Christchurch in hopes to get a new sales team. Um, but I mean at a backpack is partying every night with everyone.

Yeah really got time to do that. 


Nice.  so is the acting part quite fast in terms of that's not the limit right now. What this getting customers? Yeah, so was I have 20 minutes and we're gonna come yeah, they couldn't you just start hacking companies and just sort of say ethical hackers and just start going around like a list of them and um, I didn't want a couple days ago New Zealand psychologist thought yeah, um, I found out that their web servers vulnerable to sequel injection.

So what that means is. We can gain access to the whole database so we can get all the credentials we can get people's phone numbers addresses emails and you know, everything that the site has the whole database we can have so email them saying that they have vulnerability and that was last week and I haven't even that I thing is with that.

That gives them to go to the police and say that they are. Okay. So it's better to have qualified leads actually want to be hacked. Yeah and just going in packing around them. Yeah, I kind of and then another one I did like that was a company called Scaffolding in Wellington. Yeah, and this is completely out of blue.

I was using this $60 phone. Yeah at the warehouse. I will pass the company they had a secure encryption, but they rather it will WPA and literally just walking past them I was able to. I can see the network power. Yeah to dickless. So I went into the company and told them about it, but I was shaking because they could have just ten round police.

Yeah. Yeah so hard when they sometimes when people but I haven't had a thing exactly like that. But sometimes you see people making like a massive mistake and you just want to tell them but sometimes they just don't want to hear it. They think you're a dick and your like I do I just tell you like you're about to fuck everything up and yeah.

I think the specific example that it's a lot of that feeling asking them to if we can happen first. Yeah. Hey we had to you and then like fuck we got hacked. Yeah, especially on the defensive like yeah. 


Ok, so you haven't recruited any other hackers than yet.

I do have a hacker. Um, he's an Auckland at the moment. He's also about an illness. and I I've been talkin to him for about three years now, so I thought of a lot of trust with them. Um, so when we get a customer that has a web server that they want to order if I can't do it. I'll pass on to him to see what he gets here.

Okay. Um, you haven't got any. Specific interview style questions or anything then I've never before. I've only given the position to go around. I know trust um more surface level of just when you meet people. Do you have any favorite questions just to turn things into more interesting conversation or get the brothers talkin about ran away from what your stuff um, for example, the guy that does does my sail I he told me that he was having an interview for sales come.

So I understand. How long have you been in sales? And yeah, he said he was in sales for about 30 years. So instantly I was like he's probably got a huge customer base. Yeah, so ask them. Hey, what's your customer base? Like he said he's got him massive list of people and I said if I told you to sell me a website could he do it for me today?

And he said he can call about 30 people right now. It's like sweet. That's that's good enough for me. Okay, because I'm not paying them per hour. Yeah, um, I'm only paying them if they sell so if he sells a website $2,000 he gets here.


 Okay, interesting in terms of General game with more into hacking and things and the quenching how if I wanted to start learning, what would you recommend I start doing learn how Network function if you don't know how Network functions it's going to be extremely difficult for you because if when you know how the network works, you know how devices communicate to each other, you know, what courts to use.

Yeah, and then from. You can fuck around with those. Okay, cool. Do you have any favorite tutorials or is it will say long ago the E tutorials? Um, I've actually post some tutorial online. Yeah, I'm favorite tutorials. Uh, YouTube channel called hack hack 5 is where I got that little Wi-Fi pineapple problem.


Oh, yeah. Yeah. Can you explain where Wi-Fi pineapple is? Hey Wi-Fi pineapple is a device is almost like a row. So I'll use this as an example, you'll find or your computer when you go home at night, it automatically connects to your out because your router is on its p&l list, which is the third network list.

So your phone is always constantly searching. Hey home network. Are you available? Hey office network available because it's connected before what the Wi-Fi pineapple does is it picks out those requests and says, yeah. I'm your home network connect to me. So your phone connects to the Wi-Fi pineapple and from there, you know, all the internet's going through.

So you can see what they browse and see the photos that they see you can strip the SSL which means when they log on Facebook you can have those credential there or you can make them go to web server downloads a payload which allows your remote access and you get into the webcam or and still runs away.

Okay, cool. If I have a Wi-Fi pineapple does that mean I instantly have a user interfaces click button strip thing or yes. Okay, that's nice. If anyone actually know what they're doing. So it could you do quite a lot of hacking without actually being a good coder or different one. Yeah. Okay, that's kind of good kind of worrying look for example right now I can teach you how to that don't require any programming and I can make you break into web server or hacking C7 computer.


Okay, that's had taken to a web server and I'm a lot of different ways. Um, how do you explain it like these sequel? For example, the one I did most recently with. What you want to do is when server has the for example at the end of a URL you see PHP equals ID one right here. I've seen that you have now if you take away the one so pH P equals ' that that fox up the web server.

So these are vulnerability in the sequel. It'll come back with an error saying you have an error and its sequel database. Now if you use a program called SQL map or sequel ninja you're able to access their data. And then these other these a whole lot like these burps attacks. You can Brute Force the admin you can have phishing websites.

Like the first day I came here. Um, I host the fishing side. Yeah with Logan, but with that I didn't get any longer. So I started learning Mac addresses. Yeah, and as you can tell I used all your internet. Yeah, it's funny when they looked on and then to the yeah, they like one thing and then looked on pages means that was going and now I know why um, yeah, my friend that went to start doing a like a host fishing said people could just um login and like build their own phishing scam to do stuff, but then it was like, okay maybe people are going to do this for bad thing.

We didn't do it which is good. 


Anyway, you were then going to tell me about um, how to hack into a PC check answer. Um again, these many ways the two main ways I do it is using the Wi-Fi pineapple or using a program called. Essentially you using together Armitage in the Wi-Fi pineapple. So with a Wi-Fi pineapple you make their computer for example, right when you click join it takes you to the login page.

That's what you call a landing page with the Wi-Fi pineapple. You can have your own landing page that downloads payload and background and it goes throughout to the writing. And that payload allows you to access computer via command line. Yeah. So once you're on the command line, you can look at any file that they have on their computer add files.

Delete files access the web camera Okay cool. So, uh to protect myself I should try and keep things online then to protect yourself from that is when you're out in town. Yeah, keep your walk by don't join public nails. Yeah, when you're at home when you join your home network, make sure that it's not a duplicate home network.

For example home router 1. Okay, you want to make sure that there's only one of those yeah, two of those is a challenge. Someone's cloning your home router and hopes looking to them thinking about it. Okay? And then another way is I see at the back of this a lot of people leave their laptops open.

Yeah, and they leave the room for a few seconds. That's all it'll take for me to plug in the USB 3 seconds later got access to that computer. Okay. So this USB stick acts as a keyboard. So essentially types Willow is our to bring it for run box types of Powershell script to bring up the terminal on an admin level and then tells the computer to connect to market cap, all three seconds and then you unplug the USB, but you still got access so you unplug the.

So it looks like nothing's wrong with that computer. Yeah, I'm back to it thinking nothing happened shit. You know, I'm on their computer. Yeah, so also because some PT can say so when chat doesn't actually stop as well. Yeah, um, but when you shut the lid usually loccent, yeah usually but I can set it on my Mac.

So that's actually a carries on running and never even yeah. Yeah, so that would be like a really bad thing to do. Whatever you're not your computer your phone have it all disconnected from a new. So, um,


 I'll admit I had my computer off last night. Like you had a conversation about Bitcoin. I was only five minutes, but I had said that I had like a lot of different exchanges and like a wallet was like shit.

This guy's just admitted to stealing a lot of Bitcoin and I just mentioned that I have like lots of different languages like, uh, maybe I'll turn my computer off and it'll be fine. No, I'm she was hacking because a lot of my friends have got arrested. Have people that I I tell them yeah, you can go to the place and tell them even though you need my bitch.

I won't get arrested. It's because you have the initial evidence of hey, yeah. Yeah definitely getting some they'll have no idea about. Okay. Um, so would you say that's probably your number one tip for things secure always be like really just in the way from person that you is your hacking 


know I can for example daily in Wellington when I catch the bus into town.

Yeah. I usually wrap everyone on the bus through the Wi-Fi. Yeah, and I display message on the phone usually saying yeah, but have to regard Anonymous or if I'm at a library. For example, I can get most Library connected to me. Yes, like was quite funny for gave one computers. Okay. Well, that's nice.

Um, you know worried that maybe that we like young children and stuff in the library. It could be but it's not. Okay, that's amazing. Um cool just for a bit of fun. And uh, another thing is McDonald's as well. Yeah, you join McDonald's free Wi-Fi and they don't certainly got a page coming up saying you water free.

Yeah, you're gonna take that front. It's really funny people as well. So a lot of should I do is pray. Yeah, and I'll do it in such a way that it can't get traced back to me. Okay? What was the first prank whoever did my first prank probably just shutting down computers. Yeah. Yeah, my friend had that I remember when I was like 14 or something like a USB that I could plug didn't like it can be just like oh she.

Oh, no checking that out. Yeah. It was like mate. What have you just done fuck off? And another one is right, like literally four lines of code and save it as a and you can have. Stock pop up like you have massive amounts of notepad just randomly pop internet things pop up and then shuts down here just to do that to my friends and send them those pillows.

So they have click it and I think they have wires and the computer just shut it down and we stopped and this one cool. Yeah, it's kind of um, uh,


 what you say is the biggest risk, you've ever taken biggest risk. I've taken ones with Anonymous. Um, it was an operation called at the time. We um, we're taking on banking.

Sit down the Rothschilds. We took down Central Bank of America banks around the UK banks are only Europe. And what we're doing is we're just dealing their service ananka doing on the bank but a couple people got arrested for that and spend 10 years in jail. Yeah, so that's probably one of the most risky things I've done.

 but when they arrest people like that, do they try and give them reduce time for yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, he was guy was enormous in this hex on Sega. His handler was sobbing and he was around winning on the started.

Great, then he got caught by the FBI and he had a family. So I said you were going to spend life in prison or going to work for us. Yeah, come on informant. So he was like fuck it. I work for you guys and I'll become an informant. Yeah, he went after which out. He ratted up whole bunch of people.

Yeah. So if you go on that chat now, yeah. You don't get a lot of hate. Yeah. Okay. So it's hard to you to ask people in the command. I think about yourself. Yeah, so that's why you don't really tell people who you are. Yeah.


 Do you know much about  any reason hacks late either hanging on like the the one last year took down NHS and loads of people that was like a ran. Oh, what a cry and yeah. Yeah. There's a couple rounds vertex.

Yeah. No, I knew about that. I originally came from apparently South on North Korea. Yeah, I should yes, so they just. Wanted to fuck up everything that could yeah. Yeah. Um, I don't I don't really look too much into it because I thought it'd be fucking awesome because that's the time I made my way.

Yeah, it was after that happened. I was like, this is a great idea. So instead of researching about that. I researched my own room. I mean ones but my way was more localized so it didn't hop on. Except for the taxi around somewhere. So he plugged it in to the server. It's in the payload to Christchurch.

Yeah, so new Plymouth in Christchurch got attack. Wow. Yeah, cool. That's interesting. 


So I'm actually going to North Korea in a in a few weeks crazy. Do you think I could try and and ransomware and to get take them back now? Um, I would say be careful because I know a lot of happiness around those areas and you know, those guys are fucking amazing they have cell phone towers.

Yeah, you could be texting people making phone call but hacking wow. So basically if you know entirely sure you doing just their way and the crazy thing about hacking is most of it goes unnoticed. Yeah, so you could be making a phone call thinking, you know, it's all secure but I hackers listen if you takes your credit card details boom next day.


Yeah go. Um, yeah actually worked on the oil rigs for a while because actually there epically against it apart from the fact that it's just super interesting together like learn about the industry was like if I need more like quite tempting to do that stuxnet or something just to tell you the whole damn.

I was like fuck it happened one doing I'm pretty sure stuxnet was the one with the nuclear power. Yes, and you can happen. Yeah, they um, it was almost like an the fans and how fast the buttons were going. Yeah, and then it made bands go way too fast and it told the system that the bans were splitting normally.

Yeah and um quarter fan broke. Yeah, it's cool. I remember sort of is really cool. They did that but the technology behind getting it. Spread and stuff was like kind of cooler than the actual in his kind of uh, they could have done something much cooler with that. Yeah, because once they found it they fix it and then it was sort of that kind of more public how they did it until that has access to that teeny bit silly.


 So yeah, I guess going on to cryptocurrencies. How did you hack to and end up with currencies so we would find our people who have cryptocurrencies and we make sure that they don't know who we are. Here we go with the Wi-Fi pineapple outside their house.

Um, then we monitor their intimate usage and if they have a wallet that's online. We could pick up that website that they're going to so we could climb in that web. And yeah, kicking off their internet wrap them through the walk and when they browse for example coinbase. Yeah, we can make that website route to our fishing pier.

They think they are including base but there are my fishing stuff then they login. Yeah, and they could but most of the time they use two-factor authentication. Yeah. So with that we have to get the email as well. Okay, I was gonna ask how do people protect themselves when they're using these things.

Like Democrat take out and sees to do is use two Factor authentication because if someone has your wallet password and you don't have two Factor authentication they can straight away break into it. Yeah, if you use two Factor authentication either sins a text your phone, yeah or an email. So if you're um, there is unlikely that you'd ever be able to find like a Bitcoin whale or something just because you know that can the term whale someone has like buttload of Bitcoins or something.

It's unlikely future ever be able to hack someone like that because they probably know what they're doing in the vehicle protected for you know, a lot of the time they don't know what they're doing. They just yeah new phase invest a lot of money into Bitcoin like the gun with the brain. I saw that random way to yeah, he's now got into a lot of Bitcoin accounts from that Ransom.


Wow. Okay. He tended to go somewhere that is like a bit of a Bitcoin into. Hub just for a weekend and try and make her money and run away. Um, no because at the moment I've got 85 the corn right? I'm sorry. And yeah, I'm staying away for the black at hacking. Yeah. Yeah, probably just be very content with what you've got.

Yeah me too greedy. Yeah, that's fine. And maybe yeah, if it does go up to 100 Grand the Bitcoin I'm sold. And if not, I'd still be like a few this point because like yeah somebody worth lots and that be nice and it should cool how much of that was stolen then probably bet half. Wow, and this was when Bitcoin was sort of coming out.

Yes, it was couple since its 200 or $400. Yeah, so people would put their weekly pay into a gate like Point fuck it. I'm gonna take it. So got about 45 minutes from doing that. Yeah. Yeah about three years ago. Okay. Yeah. I'm then that recently in such know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, very scary trying to yeah right now suddenly a lot of money.


Yeah. Well as a interesting thing to invest in back then did you have any clue that it might be going up at the time we like this is a good investment. I'm gonna get some Bitcoin. It was just like I was kind of funny. I had not idea you see I was still. Living parents and I didn't really go out much.

All I did was go to work. I'm program. Yeah, a lot of displays which I was like fucking I wonder what would happen if I put into Bitcoin so I started buying it went from a few cents and the price would up and up and up and started doubling. Yeah. I was like, holy shit. I was like, fuck what if I wasn't people's Bitcoin accounts.

Yeah, so I can just get as much as I can. Nice, let's go, uh, and the world of cryptocurrency. Then now that things have changed a lot more. What do you think is going to be the biggest quicker and I'm actually looking at my and record at the moment. Yeah, because it's one of the most secure ones.

So if I have a it's hard to trace it essentially but lately I haven't been doing a lot of research in secret clearance. To be honest with you the tanja's pretty fast. Yeah. I mean tomorrow it goes up down left, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely worth having some and forgetting about it waiting couple years.


Yeah, she really need to actually use it which is not really that useful yet. I am I was staying at Juicy wenzels when I first came down here. I was the guy with me. Um name is Joe and one of his close friends then I should he buys MDMA for the dark web and he uses Bitcoins. So he gets at $11 per gram and a New Zealand it sales 300 grams.

So we nearly made a deal with $50,000. Yeah, so it's going to give him a shitload bit cooling $50,000. Yeah, but the problem with that was I didn't trust them and he yes, like he was bigger than the fucking rock. So I thought if I transferred a couple countenance account. Yeah, and if he says no, he's not going to pay me.

Yeah. You'll knock me out with a - yeah easy to stay away. Yeah, it's risky. Um, yeah pretty scary.


 Um, are you tempted to do any different form of business like a cryptocurrency start to think or he is very happy with Hackett. What's cryptocurrency startup scene I shitload of money to start it up.

Yeah any buildings started up and Bitcoin wallets get have to all the time and I don't I don't know too much. So I'm going to stay well away from creating my own Bitcoin startups here and just focus on hacking companies and then try to secure them. Okay? I think I could Pat. Um,


 okay what in the world worries?

You most Wonderworld worries me most. Yeah spiders. Really? Yeah fucking terrible sliders. Okay apart from that. Um, you get to a certain point we've done too much this not gone back. Yeah, so I'll be able to say a couple months ago. I was hospitalized that was grown antidepressant. No, I was speaking to the psychiatrist for ages about hacking because I was just worried it's going to get cold and literally spend the rest of my life in jail and they put me on search for Lane for a couple weeks and then it's done fucking cutting myself and actually hung myself at one point and I was put into an induced coma for a couple days came out of it and I just thought fuck it Anything Could Happen.

Yeah. It doesn't really worry me as much anymore because I could be dead right now. I'm essentially bought the time so I don't care what happens. Wow. Yeah, I'm glad you seem to be a lot more positive. Yeah. Um, did you see skin me a lot every night. I think it's hot. It was hard to go to sleep.


Yeah that kind of like a drug addiction. It is definitely as if I definitely had a lot of friends. Now 1675 getting into drugs and drugs on this phone. Yeah, then you just know it's like some people just take them every day and some kind of deal them and sell them and everyone's I getting arrested you're like well maybe to go any further into this world.

And yeah, you know that the hack once you've gone down there part or yeah time it's not going back. Yes, like a really hard back. Yeah. That's what happened starting with Anonymous doing taking down banking or side. Listen. Yeah. Yeah sounds so exciting but also like and knowing that people that were doing the same.

Taxes main getting 10 years in prison. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, cool. Oh, yeah, I'm really really happy to hear that. You're doing ethical hacking and stuff that now, um, what do you think General interested in the future? 


What do you think the world's gonna be? Like in five years time have a daughter that much.

I I live more day today. Yeah, but five years time. Um, I reckon Automation and a yeah a huge impact on our everyday life. He's going to be more it sounds crazy but robotics taking over everything. Like if you had said that five years ago, um, for example robots will take over our jobs people think you're nuts.

Then you go to New World now you get yourself service. Check it out. Yeah, they replace people with the machine doesn't fit me. So I think a lot of it can cause that way and with machines. Free it doesn't fuck up and it sticks to what it's supposed to do. It doesn't deviate from it. Yeah, it doesn't go an arrest or making break.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean like things. Yeah. Google has came up with an AI that created its own baby. Yeah. This artificial intelligence program is own baby out of until. And it programmed it more efficient as well. So no human could have programmed it that way and it's more efficient than any other God.

So like knowing that in five years time when he's writing his own code that humans can't even understand. Yeah, that's when it gets here. Sure. 


Does that not worry you for your stuff? If you're not gonna be able to keep up at all the happy when thinking start being much more secure. Make it secure.

I'm actually working on at the moment with happy. Yeah, so essentially you can tell like my home automation. You can tell Jarvis to turn on the lights or whatever. I'm trying to work on a module with each other's gain access to the Apple computer on the network. Yeah, take a screenshot of of the other screen for me.

So that's what I'm working on right now. So even though that stuff's being more secure. I'm trying to work on ways to attack that yeah. 


Yeah, it's kind of the Red Queen hypothesis. So it's um a good book by Matt Ridley, but it's basically it was about Evolution and um, you know as Wonderland, there's like the red queen and the one point Alice's running really fast trying to get somewhere and the Red Queen is just sort of in front of acting like you're gonna have to run twice as fast if you ever want to go like any further forward is basically constantly going backwards while she's trying to go forwards and it basically whilst you're innovating and beating but ever you're competing with is also going to be in debating against easier if you.

Evolve like a better way to make like faster reaction. So you can avoid the Predator is going to evolve faster reactions or yeah. Yeah this kind of thing. So you feel that you'll be able to keep up then I'm trying and like the level of sophistication at those that software has is fucking incredible.

I mean if an AI can make its own, baby. It'll be fucking easy for it to be like, okay, let's make this a program something to make sure this network cannot be happy. Yeah, it could be a I could even make a honey pot. So if you have the network, you're not hacking that Network the AI picks it up and draws you into a honey pot We Gather every bit of information on your computer hacks your computer and then reports.

Yeah. Okay cool.


 They go right over. But yeah, can you just explain how many books when I first had to turn honey bought it was literally two days ago, and I thought it was. You know how like ethical hackers. I just have like Bounty. I don't any pot with a bounty. Oh, look at this exact same kind of things like, oh, yeah cool if I can hack this again into the honey pot and bright but the hyper patting the opposite thing if you could explain so it's um a module.

I've got on my home automation ethic my man Honeypot, When you try and hack into Network or or wait here, honey pot imitate that imitates the network. So you think you breaking into for example, the Zender Wi-Fi. Yeah, honey pot comes up in vacancy that and the Honeypot gathers information about the hackers computer.

So it stops the hacker attacking the network. Yeah, and potentially can hack the hacker back because yeah and have no idea. So with companies, you know when they constantly get attacked, they usually set up a Honeypot server. So the hackable think he's getting access to their Network by yeah in reality.

He's just given my orders information cool. So have you said that up with quite a few the companies you've worked with them? No, um only was my home. Yeah with cybersecurity. We don't respond to cyber attacks. We give that to company called Sir. They the ones who deal with cyber incidents and Cyrus.

Okay finding. Yeah, we want it. Okay, if you thought about broadening or services or you just mentioned I have thought about broadening coming future. 


Okay, cool still on the startup phase. Yeah sure and then back to a I have you done a lot of reading around a it's going like superintelligence the book of yes.

So, um, one of the latest things that moment is called neural networks. Yeah the book no neural networks. Just in general. Yeah. Yes. I've been doing. She learning stuff. Yeah, and so yes, I have heard of neural networks. Um, so you yeah, what's your favorite thing about just the way it processes information?

Yeah. It's like how brain isn't motion. It's quite cool. Like for example little nine, right? You'll see a circle at the top and then the line if the bottom yeah instantly you'll know it's not even if it's draw like a random way. Yes circle at the top and then line a computer machine learning would look at every individual.

Small spit up that right anything pixel. Yeah, and then it'll go from the first layer depending on what it activates in the first layer or sentence for the second layer to be like, okay. Are you sure it matches up and they're confirms it again and then it goes down and down and down until it's 100% sure if those what it's done.

Yeah, essentially like a brand like you look at the little line, you know, it's 11:00 on yeah. Yes crazy how much better these things are going. Yeah.


Okay, and you mentioned home automation stuff. They were home automation things if you got going, um, have you seen jobs from my man?

Oh, yes. Yes. So essentially you're in your house and you say hey job. How's it going? And it can talk to you so it has its own personality. You can say Jarvis. No, how's it going? What's the weather like and if it's too cold in the room, you'll say hey, it's below your desired temperature to hit my bottom.

Yeah, you can just yeah, how long do you want it on for 30 minutes and other stuff with it. I is now for example you leave your house if you actually may leave the story one or light on will notify you. Yeah, it's creepy bite. We are at all times so you could be going to the shop and you have to shop and then when you come home the garage knows you have to get open garage and drop them if it's nighttime light will come on depending on what rooms are going to utilize for.

You don't have to do any at all. This isn't even though he doing in my you need cool. Okay, do you think you could run a service of just like saying? Equal pay system up in some way. Yeah, that's what we do is so my sales team goes up to like the old guy that has a lot of customer base. He goes up to him and says, hey have you heard about home automation?

Yeah, and he talks to them about it. And then he shows them my videos and asked if they wanted install and it's really simple because all you do is you have not do we know or Raspberry Pi? Yeah connected to a bunch of wires and switches. And the program on that itself is pretty easy straightforward the comes from the phone.

So the phone communicates with the a winner or Raspberry Pi and it tells it like for example turn on that light. So the phone sends command to be able to win over telling you turn on the lights. Yeah, really easy setup and houses cool. 


Okay. Um, then you think looking at the world as a hacker just suddenly everything if you can hack it as like, okay have you ever happened to me was give yourself a free ride or a free pizza or anything like that?

Oh, Mom. Have two accounts. Yeah people's accounts to get free rides, but I've never gone from my account got a ride. Yeah. Okay. I haven't had over service but these people that do it cool or like rent a car for a day, but then you change it actually bought it for a month and I think I yeah awesome never done it but that would be super.


Okay. would you do that? So when you book a car there they write it on. System they uncertain they saying okay the day you bought it and return it. Yeah, and then they save it to a file. All it takes is need to plug in a USB for three seasons unplugging and then modify that file. Yeah, when I am the car the lady ran away for salute literally five minutes.

I just did next to her computer. Yeah dealing with something so you could have ten and my computer one 1 yeah in the car for an extra month and say if we paid for yeah, perfect. Okay. I need to get hold of that us V apparently cool. Everyday got yourself a ticket. So you see I'm I'm extremely neurotic and cautious.

So yeah, we don't do a hack. It's not for person. It's to have a laugh or two fucker. Okay, see if I have from my account and whoever finds out that they could have is traced back to me. Yeah, I'll get. For probably good. Yeah, 


any other major life tips the way just don't fucking trust me? Yeah.

Yeah. Don't don't trust people make sure your walk is turned off any Ghost Town joining open Wi-Fi networks in town. I mean, you know as soon as you join the network somebody backs show, okay? As a life that seems a bit negative saying don't ever trust people. I'm quite trusting person certainly in the united.

I'm definitely okay, actually. Yeah, see, I would definitely not want to trust people. Uh, do you feel that like you I just left trusting in general because if you are in the world of happy yet you talkin about so kind of nicer to be perhaps. More like the rest of the world. Are you wearing right things too much.

If I wasn't a hacker, I would be more trusting people. I'll be open and whatnot like when you came here, and you said you wanted to me. Yeah initially. I was like what if he's a cop that's just my mentality that he could be trying to get all this information from here. It's always I'm always. Like question, I think yeah, so my trust levels are extremely low and it's hard to be so present in the moment when you were always like that second line of thought going on.

Yeah, so it does fuck you up. Yeah, definitely nice to see those two sides and we get in the. Going on say six. I think oh, it's really shit. If you're black hat hackers. It is scary. Um, you did more ethical hacking it's wearing. Yeah. You don't have to look behind your back every day. Yeah, that's good to hear.


Okay. what was your most vivid memory from childhood? Like the first thing remember? Oh my birthday cake the fire truck on it. I don't know why I apparently love Electronics cool. Yeah. That was my first memory and then being from select because I came here when I was. 11 so a lot of memories I have is gunshots having AK-47 like trying to learn because we used to couple as well.

So we're driving the mumps cut to the shops and then go to someone else's get a right to school with them. Yeah, but running from Mom's car today, like in my sister's jacket was covering me up because we had guns pointed at us. So we were fucking sprinting and try and not get shot. Wow. Yeah, and then I went back two years ago and same shit happened.

I was in a pub. I approached the sky and said hello in English. Yeah, he didn't speak English. So he head-butted me put a gun to my head and said after leave the country. Wow. So yeah, that's why I came back. Yeah, definitely. So a lot of my memories from shit. Yeah, a lot of violence super extreme cranky.


yeah, if you been following South Africa in general, then it's always been interesting to see how the country is doing. It's not interesting. It's more funny. Yeah, like if you look at the old president Jacob Zuma like motherfucker can't even count. Um, if you watch YouTube videos of them as fucking hilarious, he can't pronounce words.

You'll be reading a line in his like he just cannot pronounce words. You can't say numbers. Yeah. He seems like a couple million who like 1 million 1,000 2305. It's just really fucking hilarious and he's the president. So it's more funny than an interesting. Yeah. 


Do you have any routines and habits to kind of help eat the selfsame not routines.

Um, I try and like mix up my routine or time. just just because I'm fucking Murad again because of what I've done and I know a lot of my friends have people like investigators after workplace after them and after a while the police that please monitor you they know your habits. They know what you do.

They know where you go. So for example, five o'clock tonight. I know this guy's going to be a two-part. so I try to mix things up. So no one can really guess what I'm going to next. Okay? So, I mean you try and just always do things berries, like one day order like a pineapple pizza the next day.

It's like I've never had pineapple again. It's gonna be random different. Yeah. Okay. Swear to explain just I try and not do things the same over trying different. Okay, and then tell you that kind of annoying you never have that same routine. I find it's a bit harder when you're being a nomad.

Sometimes really nicely just like we can have a bit of a routine. You know, what's gonna happen that yeah, it is good having routine, but I've got so used to mixing things up. It's kind of yeah. So look at new things every day. Okay kind of cool. So you are living as a name out there at the moment.

Yeah. Yeah some right now. I'm gonna go back to Wellington and stay at the back back there as well. Yeah. Think about that is because of my fucking horrible suicidal. And sees I find it safer to be around people. Yeah, so don't lower than the house. I thoughts like can get pretty fucking inside testing.


Um, so yeah, do you ever take drugs? Oh, yeah shit lot of week as much as smoke. Yeah. Um, yeah right at like lay down a lot. Yeah, it slows me down. I I can't it sounds weird, but I can't program when I'm so glad I wrote a couple lines of code when I'm so. Just give up. It's not yeah, I have a couple joints and then I'm writing like two thousand lines of code.

And now wow, that's funny. Yeah friend sort of what's good, but then there's just over 3 negative about it, but I 30 be like bro. Have you taken so much? I can't even see it's mental. That's really interesting. Maybe I should try taking my direction. I'm kidding we going right for me with that and then also because I was put on antidepressants.

I found we a lot. Yeah, it does the same thing. It's not a big stuff. Yes. Good. Yes. It depends for me. We kind of have to be at the side effects give me that anxiety and stuff and make me more depressed. So yeah, unfortunately, uh first started smoking I used to always get paranoid. Yeah, maybe suspect myself used to hate smoking.

Wait. Yeah. I don't know what click both something. Yeah. 


Well, okay, I guess do you have anything else that you would say you're sort of addicted do anything other than hacking and weeding? That's really that's main got a Locking System here. Being on my computer systems having a bit of fun. Yeah shit what would happen if you didn't have we or a computer for a whole week?

Yahoo's my mind. Okay. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's okay since I've been down here. I haven't had any I mean completely fun, but if computer way yeah, you just couldn't use it. But you knew it you safe. I know I just couldn't imagine a lot without me being on a computer a single day without his being.

That's funny. I just don't into a thing called a rainbow gathering last month, which is like a no Tech kind of like hippie Community thing and it was actually really nice but it was a bit stressful just not being able to use it and it's a bit of like a, you know, when you try and get in like a cold swimming pool and say you can't do it if you just jump in.

Oh, it's fine. Yeah, it was kind of like that. Is it you just jump in in the special like no one has any attack and something like this is quite nice. Like there's no one was ever on the mobile phone or anything and don't even know at the time was and everything was every like you just spoke to everyone was really warm and it's kind of cool and it was just a knife like how much time you have in the day to do other things that you do like doing like playing guitar reading ever walks and playing stupid games, but I wonder if you just make here.

Do you feel like computer that is more of your friend or like the safest place to be? Yeah, like computer for me is is interesting my best friend. I trust that won't yeah, I mean over I control what it does and it can't do anything bad to me. Whereas a person can person. Fuck you up. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Definitely. Sometimes it is a bit weird and your best dress like your computer in the but they way they're like, oh you got to be on my computer. Okay. Well now I'm here when you gonna do. Yeah. Even problem these days. Um cool.


 And then is there anything else you wanted to add? They haven't spoken?

Well, yeah conversation. Um, and then there's anything else you want to ask me I can take over ice. Okay, um just uh put your worries at rest on the podcast. It may take three to six months before I actually get around to it editing and putting it live just in case you're like worrying like three months later.

Why is why is this guy not like put this anywhere or send me a message. I have a backlog of like 20 other podcasts to get through. I did that like to publish one a week, but then sometimes like happened and it takes like two weeks, maybe three weeks and just to be safe. Like I'm not gonna get that number or anything.

I'm just gonna keep it like that because you always that yeah, normally I am taping like Twitter handles people can get in touch, but I can not do that just because dorms are related to me. And yeah, um, I did mention your name, I think at the start I can't take that pretty sure you didn't mention my last a lot of people have the name.

Yeah. There's a lot of time Harris's so. Pretty hard to find me on Facebook that cool. Um, thanks a lot. This is very very interesting. Uh, is there a way I can ever get in touch with you somehow that would be like alongs are seizure. Okay, we'll work that out office. Anyway, thank you very much.

That's crazy.

{ Wrap Up content }

 first we do a quick sound check. Uh, we have a breakfast.

Oh good.