How To Overcome Your Problems With Curiosity and adventure - /w GeoWizard (Tom Davies)

What if there is more to life?

Have you ever felt stuck, lost, or just a little bit bored? Maybe Wondering if there's more to life than spending half your time checking your phone and otherwise living your day to day and perhaps playing it smaller than you could?

Well, if you have wondered about that, you're not alone. The urge to break out to chase adventure maybe, or simply find some meaning amid the chaos that is a sign that you would perhaps like some challenge in your life in some way.

After all, the growth mindset is all about embracing challenges instead of shying away from them. Today, I thought we would look back at an episode I recorded five years ago with my second cousin, Tom Davies, who is better known as Geo Wizard on YouTube.

At the time, his fame was really just breaking, but now he has almost one and a half million subscribers who follow his adventures crossing countries in straight lines, crossing cities without using roads or guessing where something is on the planet based on a single image.

Which is certainly one way to make a living. It turns out but it wasn't always like this for Tom and his career beforehand consisted of working in bars or being a delivery driver. And he had some real mental health challenges in life , and a lot of struggle with finding himself.

But he did take a lot of risks and he found his way out by taking on challenges all around him. So. Hello and welcome to the Growth Mindset Psychology Podcast.

Where we learn about the science of self-improvement and the philosophy of a life well lived, this episode is probably more mindset and philosophy rather than exact science, but we do talk about breaking out of a funk by pushing on your comfort zone, bringing curiosity and adventure into your life, and building the confidence to take the risks to back yourself and walk a path that no one is advising you in the slightest to do, but feels right for you.

Do stay with us for this conversation with Tom Davies. AKA Geo Wizard.

Context

So Tom, in the years before the channel kicked off and you became a phenomenon in your microcosm of the internet, what were you doing that led you there? Just to put in perspective, like the challenges and mindsets going on

that people maybe don't usually recognize.

Well, in the years leading up to when I did this mission across Wales, which kind of propelled me, I wasn't really doing a lot with my life, to be honest.

From the age of kind of 18 to that point, I kind of fritted a lot of years away. I had like a string of jobs, not mundane jobs, I wouldn't say. 'cause the job's a job. But you know, I was working in supermarkets and behind bars and stuff and just hoping that one day I would have success in some form or another music or adventure or something like that.

The Turning Point: Mission Across Wales

And then I started doing the geo guesser stuff and that kind of was trundling along, doing all right. And then, yeah, the whale thing just kind of took off. Really.

Yeah. That's interesting. You said you weren't doing too much with your life because I mean, I certainly struggled with like traveling and trying to do something useful, but like getting confused and feeling I'm going in circles and stuff.

Going Full-Time with GeoGuessr

I remember hearing that you're quitting like your job to go full time with just the geo guessing before you'd ever done any adventure things. So how did you like go through that process of like actually. I'm gonna go full time on this sort of like silly idea where I just guess places.

You're right. I was just doing the Geo guesser at the time, but the main reason I quit my job, which I quite liked that job, I was a van driver delivering and picking up things for insurance companies.

So I was driving all around the country and I liked that job, but I quit it because I, I had so much editing to do for the Mission across Wales. I'd filmed it three months prior and it was such a mammoth task and I was just finding no time to do it. So I was just like, look, I'm just gonna have to quit my job.

And I'm not sure whether this thing will be a success, so I'm kind of taking a gamble. But if it isn't a success, then I can always go and get another job afterwards if the YouTube doesn't earn me quite as much money as I, I was hoping, but it was a success and I've been able just about to live off it.

It was a lot of work, you know, 'cause it was kind of my first big editing job as well, even though I'm not an editor. Yeah. Sort

of. You've got like a lot of jokes and like some like fluffs and things, but it is actually really well put together. It's constantly telling a story and you kind of, you bought into like, what's gonna happen next with Tom and the heck.

It's just really funny and it's not just sort of as in you watch some videos and people just stick stuff together and you're like, well, okay, you cool? But like, yeah. It's sort of hard to watch, whereas you made it very easy to watch, which is why it's sort of successful.

Yeah, I, I think I, I took great care.

I went a bit mad with it. Really. I'm a big perfectionist with anything that I do and. I've got like hours of footage per day, like four hours of footage per day. And I want to keep a lot of that, but you gotta kind of keep people hooked. It's tough. You have got to be ruthless sometimes, unfortunately. And you learn to, even if you're a bit perfectionist and OCD, you learn to just get used to that.

Well, I guess that would be nice to backtrack a bit. So, so how did you first get to like the 60,000 from like. Nor never done a YouTube video to bear because that's like not an easy task. Oh,

The Rise to YouTube Fame

I was lucky or opportunistic, a bit of both in discovering that there weren't that many geo guest videos online.

There were, but I couldn't find one. It was like a speed run. You're going back to about 2014 now. So Geo Guesser had only been going maybe two years, and in those days where I was sort of wasting my days away, I would play a lot of geo guesser and I became a bit obsessed with getting a perfect score on the world version.

In as fast a time as I could. And so I was like, I had to look on YouTube and I couldn't find anyone who had done it in a good time. I think someone had done it in like three hours or something and I was like, okay, here's an opportunity. Maybe I can test to see how many views I could get and maybe gauge it and see if I could keep it going, make a bit of dough whilst doing something I love.

And it worked. So I got a perfect score in the UK in like 20 minutes or something, and then I did a world, one few views trickling in, and then one day, boom, someone shared it on Reddit. It had hundreds of thousands of views, so I was lucky in that sense. I, I didn't have to work too hard for my fan base to grow.

Wow. Yeah. That's pretty cool. You think that you would've, in hindsight, kind of gone for trying to share it on places like Reddit and sort of game things yourself or? Is it kind of like a good test to just not bother doing that and see if it kind of can go viral? 'cause it was just interesting and useful for some people out there.

I've never considered why I didn't share it, I guess. Yeah, you're right. It was probably a case of, let's see if someone else shares it subliminally, I'd never thought to share it. Yeah.

Have you since tried sharing other things and kind of creating more audience?

No, not really. Really, people shared the straight line mission on Reddit, and that did wonders for it as well.

I let things share themselves. Yeah. Nice.

Well, I mean, it's a sign that you should just be like working on making stuff that's so good that it's shareable rather than, I think you should be asking people to. Watch or pay attention to you, you should be like so good that people best pay attention anyway.

So good. They can't ignore you kind of philosophy, the people I'm watching and it's just not good enough. And then you can ignore all your marketing. Interesting. And then, so after you've got like those first few hundred K, you're just like, oh, so there's an audience and I really like geo guessing, so I'm just gonna carry on recording every time I play and just uploaded it.

Yeah, man.

Yeah, I was enjoying that. I was just kind of doing it on the side. When I did that ski season, I, I stopped doing it for like six months, which. My fans were kind of bummed about. And then I continued when I got back and it went from strength to strength really. But by that point I was really itching to do an adventure as well, and start making the channel.

I always had this vision of like, well, maybe I can expand into other things. Mischievous adventures. I, I was conscious when I started my thing, like, come on, you gotta think of something that's completely d different. Yeah,

you, you really gonna hit that well with the whole can I walk across the country in a straight line?

And it was just constant entertainment, just watching you kind of like. Walk over hedges and going through like lakes that were like, not even like ponds, that basically you could easily walk around with like zero effort and you're like, oh,

I have to switch to this now. I know. Yeah. That wasn't very nice.

I almost drowned in that. That would be the most like pointless death.

Childhood Adventures and Mischief

So you said you've done quite a few adventures and you did a recent one with a friend. You used to do stuff with, but so what were the kind of things that you used to do when you were younger then?

Oh yeah, Greg, so he's basically my stepbrother, but he's not, 'cause my mom and his dad never got married, but we kind of grew up together when we got into our teens and we were getting a bit, sort of more mischievous and you know, hunting for something fun to do and something adventurous to do, we would just kind of.

Walk east into the fields. 'cause where my mom lives in Aldridge, if you look out the window, it's just countryside. Whereas West it's just all the West Midlands, you know, horrible urban areas. So we were like, wow, let's just, there was a TV mast in the distance. Near Tamworth and we used to go, well, one day specifically, we went, let's walk to that TV mast.

And it was just the most exciting idea. We, I was probably 14, Greg was like 12, so quite probably too young to be going that far, but we were like, let's walk to it, man. We had a five in our pockets each, and we just walked. East and you know, we got chased by farmers. We had to wade across streams and rivers, climbed over fences.

At one point we were so hungry, we almost took the top tier off a wedding cake in this pub. How were you in a We didn't do it. It was this country pub in the middle of nowhere and they were kind of setting up for a wedding and we were just that hungry, but we didn't. Okay. So Nonstory,

but yeah. Idea Was there

nonstory?

But I'm glad it's a non story. Um, anyway, that was one of the most exciting days for me ever. 'cause it was like, see you later. Normal life. It felt like we owned the countryside, you know, we were discovering it and we owned it. And, and then for years after that, we tried to emulate that magic and just went on.

We used to start in Litchfield and go north from Litchfield or East, from Litchfield until we just discovered. All the fields that we possibly could. So basically I was no stranger to like hop in fences and trespassing and things like that. 'cause we were always respectful when we were on someone's land.

We never like damaged anything. And we were always respectful to the farmers if we did come across them. So that's what paved the way for, you know, the mission across Wales. 'cause I knew in my head that it was possible to an extent. I wasn't sure whether it was possible to do a whole country in a straight line.

I really didn't know, but I was no stranger to that type of thing, basically from those days. Yeah.

That's so cool. I of wish I'd done that as a child. Sounds awesome. It was eventful and a bit naughty. Yeah. And what did your mom think? How did you get back?

Luckily, my mom kind of was worried about what we were doing, but I think ultimately her and Greg's dad thought, do you know what?

They could be doing a lot worse things. They could be on the streets kind of doing, God knows what, like drinking and smoking and stuff. So at least they're kind of doing good stuff in a way. Like, I know trespassing isn't good, but at least they're not doing. Other naughty stuff which could lead to screwing your life up.

So Derek, Greg's dad used to willingly come and pick us up and it would be quite funny 'cause we'd ring him and it'd be like, where are you? And we'd be like, we're in Leamington Spa. Can you come and get us? We'd just like walked, I dunno, Stafford or something, which is, you know, 20 miles away and he'd be like, oh, for God's sake.

But he would come and he'd always tell us, look, I think it's great what you're doing. That's

lovely.

So got a lot to thank Derek for. Yeah, really

What would've happened if he just sort of. It didn't help. Do you think you would've just stopped after the first one if you didn't, couldn't get picked up?

That's a good question. I think we would've done it less. We would've definitely done it less, and we would've aimed to get to places where we could get a train back. But that's not as fun. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It would've been more urban and less countryside.

It's hard to really. Back in your life and sort of say exactly that some of these things that sort of spark your decisions is kinda like quite a sort of small line between what you would've done or not.

And it's like maybe if you hadn't had the feedback of like him being like, actually that's pretty cool in helping out. Yeah. You might like not have done it more.

Yeah, I, they'd have frowned upon it. Maybe would've been less bothered. I know, yeah.

Future Goals and Passions

What are the kind of other hard, meaningful things that you might wanna do with your life then?

'cause of that? The YouTube account's pretty cool. Is that like your big focus to just grow that now because that's kinda what you're working full time on

for now? My main goal is definitely keep releasing adventures geo guesser as well, but keep releasing good content on my channel. 'cause you know, it might not last forever.

In, in five years time I'll probably be yesterday's news. And so yeah, just keep doing what I love doing, keep doing these adventures that I, I love. I'm doing them 'cause I love them first and foremost. So that's my focus at the moment. Music is another big passion of mine and I'm recording an album and I'm also gonna release the soundtrack.

From the mission across Wales as well, that 16 bit kind of game theme kind of music. I love music and that was always my first passion that I wanted to try and make it in. But who knows, maybe my album will gain traction and I can make a name for myself in that field. Yeah. My

current business is kind of about social media in this sort of causing disconnections and I'm trying to like change that to make you more present and do stuff with people and like have you thought of doing more like.

Business side things or like being a voice for this sort of stuff as you are on your channel. Besides just doing adventures, actually talking about. Why people should be having more adventures and maybe how they could be like getting away from the Instagram side of just showing off about stuff and being more present.

I've got this idea that I'm gonna release a series of videos, mainly because I can't really film much at the moment. One of them is gonna be, this is why you should put yourself out, your comfort zone. This is. Why should go on adventures and just kind of help people get out of a hole and maybe people are a bit lost in life, a bit kind of down and out, no direction.

Why not help them? I think that'd be a great thing to do. 'cause I've been there. I was in a bit of a rut really when I was in my early twenties just bumming around smoking weed and just doing nothing with my days. So I, you know, I'd like to help people. Definitely. Sort of, uh, see the light if you like.

Just put themselves out their comfort zone. 'cause I do believe that's the best quickfire way for you to just feel alive again and feel proud of yourself and feel like, oh yeah, I do belong on this earth and I can do worthwhile things. Just go on a big massive adventure and camp out in the rain and be shivering and be like, oh God, this is awful.

This is desperate. And then get through it. And then the next day when the sun comes out, you just feel amazing. But I guess it's not for everyone.

There's a lot of people that just need a bit more of a push to realize how good it would be if they kind of did take a bit more adventure. 'cause people are often kind of waiting for sort of validation that they can do something.

And you kind of need to learn yourself that you can do things. And having the opportunities to do stuff before you think you're ready is where you like learn the most.

Yeah, you gotta make it happen for yourself. For sure. But it's good to have guidance.

Does filming take away from the natural experience

Do you think that recording your YouTubes when you are on an adventure takes away a bit from like the natural, raw experience?

'cause you're thinking about how can I make this something for my viewers and these kind of things?

Yeah, it does a bit, but I guess I've entwined the two. If I wasn't allowed to film a single thing, I'd still have a good time and it would feel more peaceful for sure. But I think I've got a problem now.

Anywhere I go on a holiday or an adventure, I feel like if I don't film anything. I'm just. I'm, I'm missing

Yeah. The opportunity. I dunno, I've got so used to it. Yeah. Same from having conversations with people. Sometimes if it's really fascinating, I'm like, there should have been a podcast. Why didn't I record this?

I bet. A bit annoying.

This should be being filmed. Yeah, exactly. That's

like. So therefore what it is, but it's the same for anything really these days with people in like soon something gets like slightly interesting, they get their phones out and

I know, I know, which I hate because people are losing the ability to, to tell stories, man, that's one thing, like when you meet your friends in the pub, I've listened to older blokes in the pub and one thing I noticed was they had a great ability to tell stories and to tell jokes.

That's kind of getting lost as as a generational thing. Like you don't hear young lads in pubs say, is one then for you, an Irishman walked, you know, and so forth. But stories 'cause you've got a video, like you can just whack out this hilarious video of a woman falling down a trap door and. Unfortunately it trumps the story a bit.

Yeah, that's really interesting observation because yeah, I think stories are so important and like it's such a skill to develop and useful for like other things and, and then maybe it's a bit like people getting annoyed about kids being able to use calculators to do their maths and they should be able to do it all just in their heads kind of thing.

But like if you always have a calculator, why do you need to like be able to do it in your head? And if you can always tell a story, like if you have to give a presentation and like be able to use like other stuff. Does it make sense? So like as a business, you know, it's taken me a very long time to like iron out my vision and get it so I can kind of like hit someone in 60 seconds and hit them with like my vision.

So they're like, this is such a cool idea. As opposed to like. A weird mess that it would take me 10 minutes to try and explain. And people still don't really get what it is.

It's an art, it's an absolute art and there is a way to perfect it. And it's, it's not just the words and the structures of your sentences.

It's like the way that you say things, the emphasis that you put on certain things. And I think we should all be striving to really nail that 'cause. That's beautiful. You know?

Definitely. On that note, have you got a favorite story that you like to tell in the pub to your friends?

Oh man. Sam, you put me on the spot there.

I dunno. Um, there are a few. The funniest thing I ever saw, I think was. My mate Dixon. We were in Sutton Park, which is a big park in the West Midlands lovely place. And there was about 10 of us and we were about 14, 15 and we were just exploring Sutton Park. It was someone's birthday and one of us went for a piss in the bush and the rest of us ran away from him down this path.

And you know, through the ferns in the forest and Dixon, who was a bit clumsy. He was at the back running away. We all hid in the bushes because on the path was a big swamp and it was like a big stagnant pool of water. It was covered in a, a layer of green algae. So if you weren't. Too sharp with your vision.

You might just think it was grass. Anyway, we all hid and Dixon came plowing through and he just went straight into the swamp and it just swallowed him up. It was the way that it just swallowed him up and he was totally submerged. His whole body went underwater or under mud, and he just emerged as this huge swamp creature, and it was just.

The funniest thing I've ever seen and we walked home in the baking sun and Dixon was just covered in sh disgusting, stagnant. He stunk and we didn't stop laughing the whole way home. That's great. That's the best thing I can think of because at the time it was the funniest thing.

Interesting one, like some stories are easier to tell to people.

He kind of know the person or since the great story to kind of out with your friends that are there. Interesting. So I think I'll remember that. I was was gonna say actually, 'cause if I did my standup comedy course and that went really well and actually super enjoyed it and there was something I never thought I could do, just like seemed super scary.

That's a prime example of what we're talking about, isn't it? Putting yourself out your comfort zone. I mean, you're a confident guy, but I bet that was still a scary.

I want to do some collabs on my channel when everything gets back to normal sort of adventures, like this one idea where it's like there's a pub in the middle and you both have to spin the compass and you go to a point.

On this circle that surrounds the pub, and you both have to like mission your way to the pub through the fields as quick as you can. That's just one idea. I mean, but you wanna try and collaborate with other adventurous YouTubers and just to see how they fare at some of these things. Yeah,

I think there's some interesting ones you can do in terms of.

Different transports and or kind of like some of like the top gear ones where they just get like a different car or like Richard Hammond will be like parachuting and then the other one will be like a car trying to go like two miles from like the top of the hill or something. And I dunno how that would work.

Yeah. Interesting. Well maybe we could like brainstorm some of that at some other time. We will definitely. For sure man. Okay, cool. So I guess you sort of outlined like how you're successful on YouTube. So we've been trying to get some like just. Success tips with like people that know about stuff. Like, okay, what's the best way to run like a YouTube channel and things.

Advice on making good content

Have you got any like specific tips on that besides just make good content and tell a good story?

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm actually really crap. The whole nailing YouTube and its algorithms and like. Doing good thumbnails and titles. I'm getting better at it. That's definitely important. Thumbnails, titles, the combination of the two, but I've always been naff at the whole technology side of things and it's always taken me ages to like catch up.

I would just say make 'em laugh and just do what you love doing. Think of something original. It's easier said than done, especially as time goes on, things are getting more saturated. But do what you love doing. Try and come across natural on the camera. Something I've got better at. Just make 'em feel comfortable.

'cause if, if you are all. Edgy then they'll be, and they won't wanna watch that and just work hard. Like I've worked hard, as I said before, I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I do make blunders quite regularly in some respects. And just be conscious of when people might be getting bored.

'cause people have short attention spans these days. Yeah, yeah.

Super sure.

So just like attention to detail really.

Yeah, yeah.

The Straight Line Mission

yeah, that was a really well done series and how many of views they had. Now the

first episode has got 3.3 million.

Family Reactions to Geo Wizard's Fame

I remember I had a few friends that had actually watched it and sent it to me. I was like, why have you said, who was that?

Me, my cousin? How did you know about this? And they're like, wait, that's your cousin? I'm like, yeah, so it's pretty cool.

I've had a few stories like that where I've got a close family friend was in Australia and this guy was like, oh, you gotta check this guy out. He's walked across Wales, your home country.

And he was like, yeah, he is like my family friend. Like stories like that. He's so bizarre.

Parenting and Adventure

So when you have kids, are you gonna be like, right. So he is. He is a big master over there. You must get to it and I really want to do that. I mean, obviously it's gonna be a juggle between not wanting them to die unnecessarily, but.

I've heard stories. I think it was Richard Branson. I think, if I'm not mistaken, this might be totally wrong 'cause I'm not a fact checker, but I've heard that his parents just dumped him in the middle of Wales when he was, I dunno how old he was. I guess that's quite an important factor. I think he was like 11 and said Find your way home.

And that's why he became so entrepreneurial. A allegedly, I'm gonna sound like a granddad now, but I think there's a lot of spoiled kids who are lacking in that. Kind of ability to that fire in their belly. That I think comes from not having a lot in certain ways and having to figure things out for themselves when they're younger and like patience, things like

that.

Yeah. Yeah. That's very much sort of, we're quite used to. Just having things that you want rather than having to work for it as such. And also kind of like the adventurous side of like spending time in uncertainty and learning that that often is what gives you the best results and doing things that you're not sure how it's gonna work out.

And going through sort of scary moments actually gets you to like, yeah, a much bigger enjoyment factor than just going directly for like, oh, I want this right now. And having it is not as exciting.

Having it. Yeah. It's like, you know, definitely. I mean, it's the journey, isn't it? It's the, the reward factor.

So, yeah, to answer your question, I'm gonna, I've got this like idea in my head that I'm gonna sort of get my kids if and when I have them, to do these little challenges and try and make them entrepreneurial and try and make them fall in love with adventure and life and not letting them have a phone.

Yeah. Big time still they're like 16. But good luck with that.

Yeah, it's really hard, especially if there aren't lots of kids that have got phones and that's like the cool thing.

I know, but I dunno. Maybe I, because then, then they get left out. Bullied. Yeah. It might be a bit different.

Anything that's weird is always like an unusual one for kids, but I think in like 16 years time or.

25 years by the time your kids are that age, it's, uh, it's gonna be different in terms of lot more people are kind of waking up to the problems and

I'm, I'm, I'm hoping that there'll be certain towns or villages or schools where all the parents are in this treaty together and they don't have, they don't let their kids have a phone.

Until they're 16. That would solve the problem, wouldn't it? Yeah.

Probably be like oversubscribed to get into that school. Yeah. Yeah. Best like marketing t ever for any school. I think maybe we should start a school. Yeah.

But that could happen. Yeah, I can see that happening. Definitely. There'd be a lot of odd balls.

That's interesting. A lot of oddballs there.

Smartphones and Modern Life

So how have you, I mean, you've only just got WhatsApp, but so you've generally just never used your phone a lot or?

Yeah, so I bit the bullet recently and got a smartphone, an iPhone six, but up until like six months ago, I just had like a, a really basic Nokia like 33 10 equivalent.

It's like 15 quid. I found it.

2020, well, 2019 again. That you just got it.

I think I got it. Yeah, I got it around Christmas time. I was always not like, not against smartphones as such, but I personally knew that I would spend way too much time on it, on Facebook, scrolling through pointlessly in group chats, watching YouTube, which I am now.

So I was just like, do you know what? If I don't miss it now? Why get addicted to it. And I'm happy with my crappy

phone. I can ring people, sound like my nan. I can ring people. I, I, I can text people. That's all I need to do.

You do sound that in. Now, to be fair, people haven heard,

but it just used to annoy me when I went to the pub and I hadn't seen my mates in like two weeks.

And I had a story to tell 'em. And maybe I'm not a very good storyteller, but every now and then they'd be like scrolling. Scrolling on their phone, I'd be like, we're here to tell stories to each other and talk and have a laugh. Yeah,

definitely a problem with

it. So I didn't wanna be a, I didn't wanna be a part of that.

Yeah.

The Impact of Social Media

I recently did a TEDx about the whole like issue with smartphones and it just sort of grabbing your attention and with kind of people just being a bit weaker and just immediately being used to satisfying their urges. It's like, it's like that with smartphones and they're literally there to just, as soon as you don't know what to do, it's like you have this thing in your pocket.

There's just like an infinite list of things to do that can distract you and amuse your mind. And so you never actually spend any time being bored or like being creative or like thinking for yourself. So like as soon as your brain's like, oh, going to do, I can like think of things. It's like, okay, the first thing I'll do is my smartphone before I do anything else.

And then you're lost in Facebook, or you're talking to people, or you're listening to podcasts and like just listening to other people's opinions and thoughts rather than your own. Yeah, that's

a good point. You can just go on YouTube and. Bam. YouTube's algorithm is recommending you. Things like what will happen if you throw a bowling ball off a 40 meter platform onto a trampoline, and of course you're gonna watch it.

Yeah, definitely. And so it just, it's like, oh my God

standpoint. And we're just built to um, like do things that reward us. And so when you're like doing something kind of difficult, you're not sure what's gonna come up next, and your brain goes, oh, I could use my phone. And you'll instantly get like a bit of dopamine.

'cause if you do something and you get like a task list, or in the same way that like if I'm stuck at home. I'm not sure what to do. Like I'll often just go to the fridge to eat something and like I'll eat something and like my brain will go, Hey, you ate something. That's great. And then gimme like a reward and like half an hour later it'll be like, oh, I can reward you again if you go to the fridge and I'll just keep on going to the fridge all day.

Whereas if I'm somewhere else where there's no fridge with food in it, I don't do it. And the same with like, have a phone on you. They'll just keep on sort of rewarding you and you know that and doing these other things that are hard and

you're not sure about. It's very true mate. And we are 29. I do wonder and kind of in horror, uh, at what it does to it, if you are doing that from the age of, I don't know, nine, you know, bloody hell, you, your teenage years are so crucial for your development and I'm so blessed that I got to, I mean, we had MSN, but.

I'm so happy that I spent my teen years, um, without that stuff out there. Yeah. Without that stuff out there trying to pull girls and trying to make people laugh and Definitely. And that it wasn't on a screen. Yeah. Do you feel

like social media is sort of, it's like the worst parts of being a teenager, like concentrated so like, you know, like all like kind of the validation and seeking of attention and stuff.

It's like, it's all about that. It's all about like you trying to like be cool and just show off about your life. It's got none of the good parts of just. Sharing experiences with people and actually doing stuff together and like being there in real time, actually having conversation. So you don't actually make friends on social media ever.

You just No, no. Show off to the ones that you have and it's just like, oh, gets so annoying.

Yeah, man. Absolutely. And you know, when I look at who my closest friends are in the world, like the guys who know it, all my secrets and I can just be my unad adult self in front of, I made those bonds when I was.

Kind of 13, 14, 15, 16. but you, you get to, you know, everyone's bad side and you love them anyway, whereas, so if you don't have that, then you'll have no friends.

Basically. The great future for, uh, anyone, the younger people anyway.

Yeah. It's a shame.

Mm-hmm.

But it is, it is weird how like, quickly, I mean, you've only just got smartphone. That's not the same, but I mean. The last 10 years of my life, I've had a smartphone, but before university, like I went around America and drove around it with like a compass and like now it's sort of just seems weird to not even have like a sat nab or a phone that just tell you where to go and do everything and just how you lose that skill so quickly that you even realize.

But if I'd grown up with those things, like I'd never even realized that I could even get somewhere without having a phone on me. Kind of. It's literally like an extension of yourself. Yeah. Like you don't feel complete without a phone. I dunno if you've noticed this yet, but like. Is a common recognized fact that like if a human sort of forgets their phone and like is on the tube like going to work or something, they'll literally get off a tube and like go back and get it because of like, they just don't feel right.

Like they can't do their day without their phone and you don't feel complete. And

yeah, as you say, like maps and all those tools, but also they feel like they're connected to all the people they know through like social media and like, oh God, I'm missing out on things. And it is a shame because I think humans, we derive a lot of.

Satisfaction and kind of, what's the word? We feel kind of at one with ourselves when we complete challenges and, and things that are hard to work out. And if we've got this thing to think for us, you're just gonna end up devoid of that element of like, you're not gonna be proud of yourself really. Yeah.

Because you haven't worked anything out. Achievement

and things sort of.

That's it. Yeah. It's,

have you heard of the book, amusing Ourselves to Death? It's about like, the future of humans and how like you're just gonna like slowly descend into more and more kind of just entertainment and not like really looking into like, the long term of things and, but if you think that's a great title.

Yeah. There's um, there's like a theoretical idea of like if we had like a super intelligent AI and we gave it the goal of just making humans happy. Like what it would end up doing is kind of planting something into our brain that just like stimulates us to just feel like ecstasy the whole time. So you'd just be like sat there lying just in ecstasy and like it's obviously not actually what we want it to do, but it's, and like it just seems like wrong, but like is it wrong 'cause of on like the level of like, actually I'm just happy the whole time.

Is that like a good thing? 'cause we want human happiness and instead of like what we're doing with

you might as well just. Yeah, yeah. Take drugs all the time, which is

kind of completely long.

Every up has to, has to have a down, doesn't it?

And that's sort of the cost of like social media and those things.

It is just like a short term, like up right now. You kind of, you constantly feel like it's gonna be better and like something good, but in the long term it just doesn't help your brain at all. And I. So many other things that we're losing from this stuff's it.

That's it. It's short. What's the word?

Gratification. That's the one sound. Yeah. Short term gratification. It's like the same reason you would have a McDonald's or a beer or a spliff or all the naughty things you can think of. It's finding moderation, but it's when you get addicted to to these things and to replace the satisfaction of doing truly hard, meaningful things.

Yeah. We could go on. We could go on.

Have you got any life tips around things besides, I mean, we spoke about adventure a lot and pushing your boundaries. Is there anything that you kind of, if you were to impart wisdom upon people, this would be the, the one thing they should know?

Mental Health and Overcoming Struggles

I think it's hard to ignore.

Struggle that a lot of people go through today with mental health, and I feel like it's hard to kind of ignore that because I've struggled with that in the past. So I feel quite like there's no bigger struggle than that. You know, depression and things like that. If I wanted to impart any advice, it might not be relevant to everyone, but I think it's relevant to a hell of a lot of a worrying amount of people in today's society.

I think that there is always a way out of those dark holes you can find yourself in, in life. And there's, you may not know it at the time, but there's a reason that you're there. There's a reason that you're in that hole. You're not fulfilling your potential or, I mean, this isn't always the case, but I think with a large number of like young men just kind of.

Lacking in direction and lacking in kind of knowing who they are and with the right people around you and love from other people and with the right decisions that you can make and the right attitude, you can claw yourself out of it and do great things and be happy because I have been there and so far so good.

I'm all right these days. And if, if I can teach other people that that's possible, then. That's what I'll do. I think that's a very valuable thing. Cool.

That's a really deep and useful thing to be learning. It's, it's a really hard one when it feels like there is no way out. It seems very like all encompassing and you can't imagine what it is.

But I guess that's kind of one of the things that you do sort of learn from travel to speak back to our earlier conversations of sometimes things just go completely wrong and you have no idea how it's gonna work out. After. You kind of have these moments where you're like, I think we're going to die, or the thing was gonna to go so wrong, and then it, it does work out.

You do get outta the situation. You kind of end up getting home and like everything's fine. You start to get a bit more faith You understand that things are hard just. Temper and you can almost enjoy the moment for what it is of like, wow, this is this time that I'll tell as a story

And you kind of almost enjoy the fact that things are so shit and it's, it's kind of cool.

You can ride it out if your conscious consciousness is really important. I mean, I'm no spiritual guru yet. The beard's got a few inches to grow yet, but I've definitely learned over the years, very recently really that being conscious is your ticket out of some really sticky holes in life.

I think part of the reason I was depressed when I was kind of sort of 18, 19. Was like, I just assumed that this, oh, this is me. This is who I am, and like I'm destined for this. And then when you think like that, you just spiral down and down and those negative thoughts just continue. But if you're conscious of why you might be feeling that way and, and that your emotions are linked to your actions and your feelings and your thoughts, then that's your ticket out.

And yeah, it comes with experience, I guess, in life.

Yeah, definitely didn't realize, 'cause we should of alluded to sort of having a hard time earlier. We didn't really, hadn't realize it would've been quite so bad. Feel a bit, I feel like I shoulda known issue at one point. Yeah.

No, no. 'cause I, yeah, I, I haven't even told, I haven't talked about it with my parents.

Yeah. So well like, but yeah, people

say I tend tend to not tell my mom these kind of things because she worries more.

Worry. It's probably not the thing that she's

gonna go and like go and tell the rest of the family about anyway. They go, oh. So yeah,

exactly. And you know, I'm, I, I don't like talking about it because I don't like making a big deal out of it.

Yeah. I've never been one for

like the attention and these kind of things.

Doesn't, seems to make things worse, uh, because you've gotta offload it to someone. Yeah.

But then that's sort of a, one of the problems of perhaps like, as a guy, you kind of feel like you should be like perfect, and that you shouldn't have these problems.

You shouldn't be talking about your feelings and these kind of things. But it's often very useful to learn how to do that better. But so how did you, besides having the faith. That things would get better. How did you actually get out of your problems?

I think it happened over a long period. I had it quite bad and then I, I just sort of like dusted myself off one day and got a job.

That was the first job I got working behind a bar at the Toby Calvary and I think it's funny 'cause I wasn't even conscious at the time that I was doing it, but I must have made a conscious decision to go in there and be really nice to everyone and just make the best impression possible. Just be really chatty and really exuberant, really nice.

I just figured that's gonna put me in good stead and that's the positive way to approach life, and maybe that will come back to me. Maybe it'll, I'll get that back and I'll be happy again. But it still went on, still struggled with it for a few years. Then one day I just realized, I think I was about 23, 24.

I realized that it was just this pattern in my head and that I kind of just captured it there and was like, that's it. It's just come about there. I just noticed it and I somehow managed to nip them in the bud and touch wood. I've been able to do that since just nip those negative patterns in the bud, and that was without ever going to a doctor or anything, I decided that was not the way to go.

And then from there, just making decisions like not doing drugs. I've got verity now. May well have slipped back into some kind of hole without her. She's like a real rock in my life. And yeah, I think that helps having, having a companion, definitely as you get older and older, I think I can do with one of those life, maybe that's your number one goal.

Yeah. Something I think goes face

being like, she probably focus on this more because I'm quite. Happy in my own company and you kind of learn to maintain yourself and do interesting things. So it's not like at any one point in time it seems like a major issue. But then sort of if you think about your big life, it's like, well, actually, if I could be sharing all of this with someone, that would be so awesome and it'll probably be like my biggest priority.

But at any one point in time, it's not like, oh God, I haven't got a girlfriend right now. I need to cry.

Yeah. And you shouldn't worry about it. Too much. You should let it happen, I guess. But I wouldn't want to grow old without companion or ultimately without kids. I think that's gonna be an important thing that's gonna keep me happy.

I mean, everyone's different. Some people just don't want kids. But I think it's quite sad these days. A lot of people don't think they want kids and then they get to like the late thirties, forties, especially women who have got more of body clock in that sense. And then they get into their forties and they're like, oh actually I'm gonna.

Die alone. I'm gonna be kind of lonely now. I think you've just gotta dive into it. You know much like a lot of things that scare you. Dive into it and see what happens. Get up the duff. Good.

Well on that note, boom. Terrible advice. Yeah,

the worst

advice. That's cool.

Final Thoughts and Reflections

The last few questions that I have are, what is one of your earliest memories?

I do have memories of when I lived in Oxford and I moved. From there when I was three, if you want my earliest memory, it's me throwing the cement mixer off the back of a toy lorry over next door's fence in Oxford. So I would've been three. So that's my, I don't remember anything else from that garden. So that's my earliest memory.

Guess. Do you know why you're doing

this just to annoy someone or.

I think I just had it with this toy and I was just like, do you know what? Mix off? Wow.

There we go. I dunno. It's kind of funny, the weird stuff we remember.

I know. It's mad, isn't it?

Cool. Glad I asked.

Recent Kind thing

What's the recent kind thing that just sort of made you, oh, that's really nice.

I know there's ones Jerry. This guy who let us sleep in his camper van, even though we were two blokes, two smelly blokes walking down the road and he knew it was about to rain and he was like, you can sleep in my gumble then if you want. I mean, that's so generous.

Generosity in Rural vs. Urban Areas

Like not many people that I've met would would do that.

Yeah, there was quite a few in that trip. People just going out of their way for us and I've got a theory that it's people. Who don't live in cities are more likely to be super generous people who have more of a traditional lifestyle. 'cause they've only got sort of a handful of people that they see from a day-to-day basis.

And they, they're just, they're constantly helping each other out and doing things for each other that you're much

more used to just being nice to people. And like in cities, you're just used to ignoring people

and Yeah.

City Life and Homelessness

Which, which makes sense 'cause everyone's just trying to like make ends meet and just get their shopping and go to work.

Yeah. You can't practically

The Importance of Filters in City Life

sort of try and make friends with everyone that you meet

that's just like city life, isn't it?

True.

Concluding Thoughts on City Life

Well, that's a whole nother conversation that we don't have time for right now, but thank God. Yeah, yeah.

No.

Anyway,

we've had some good chats. Yeah.

So it's been interesting. Great to finally make time to actually have a conversation with you. Dunno, why we didn't do this.

A very

deep conversation. Yeah, it's been fascinating. Well, it's been great, man. Really enjoyed it. Cool. Thanks so much.

All right. I hope you enjoyed that peer back into the past as much as I have. And it's, uh, definitely crazy to hear him talking about things in the future that he has now done because he, yes, he has released. Two albums and he's had a baby and he did mention in the interview that maybe in five years time he might be yesterday's news, but, uh, so far he seems to be doing okay, which I'm happy to say.

It was interesting reflecting on the conversation as a creator myself and to consider how much of a mutant he is on YouTube, which I'll explain like he does. Literally the opposite of basically every other YouTuber. His videos are an hour long. He films in a square format and he plays like the same music repeatedly, which is music.

He wrote himself. Uh, his thumbnails and titles have improved a little since the conversation five years ago, but I wouldn't say they are in any way optimized or, or clickbait like so many of the channels and he still does all the editing himself rather than scaling into a giant production outfit.

Yet despite all of that for his size as a creator, he has like a crazy loyal fan base

we had 17,000 members in a community. Started just to talk about him on Reddit. Uh, he has 7,000 paying patron members who just like pay him to go on adventures.

So he has somehow created a world that people really like by just being different, by to everyone else out there and more true to himself. And I think there's a lot to be said for doing things differently rather than trying to play the same game that everyone else is playing

and optimizing to compete to be the same as like Mr. Beast, et cetera, . Versus playing a different game on your own terms where you can focus on the things that matter to you, which I think is just a great piece of life advice to anyone.

I also certainly agree with his general message that we spoke about, that we should all probably spend more time outdoors and talking to people and telling stories and less time on our phones and.

Then of course, where possible look for ways to push yourself outside of your normal comfort zone, which of course will be different challenges for all of us,

but worth investigating.

And I do think there's something universal about taking on challenges like hiking and marathons, et cetera, in the outdoors . That will help just build a little bit of resilience in the rest of your life. So growth mindset tip there for you.

Another unexpected take home for me re-listening to this was how strangely relevant his story feels to mine.

Like he started his channel based on wanting to make something that wasn't out there, and he got it to some success

with those geo guessing videos to the point where he was going full time on it, and then he started a new format with his straight line missions, , which he had an urge for as a format that could be really cool. , and he poured all his time and lessons into it as a creator to make it as good as he could.

And it really took off.

On my side, I started this channel growth mindset as something that I wanted in the world back when there was zero growth mindset podcasts out there. I was just following my interests. , over time it's built up and I have been able to take it full time, which has been crazy.

And now reflecting on my lessons as a creator,

I've launched a new podcast with a new format where I'm walking a straight line through history , and I definitely find myself just losing months of time in trying to write and edit those episodes. And I also make all the music for it. And it, yeah,

just some strange parallels for me that I wasn't expecting to see. Uh, yes, of course. I don't yet have a million and a half subscribers to the new show, but it has been featured on Apple Podcast a lot and it's growing faster than anything I've ever worked on. So it's certainly.

Exciting.

Yes, I know you've probably heard me talk about it a million times already, but I do have a new show called How to Change the World about the History of Innovation, and I do bet that you will find it fascinating if you haven't given it a try already.

If you would like to talk to me and get some free coaching, you have until the end of September to apply to the competition to work with me for free by simply just taking a screenshot or by simply emailing me the fact that you have been listening to my new show. That's literally all you need to do.

Okay. On that. If you like this episode and you have a friend who needs to get out more or who watches YouTube videos of blokes walking across countries in straight lines,

then do send them this episode as it's how we grow and on that, have a great day.

Thank you so much for listening. Go you. Your consistency to reach the end of an episode is legendary, my hero. If you have any ideas or feedback for the show, I'm always interested to hear from you. You're the best studies show. We need time for information to sink in, so I'm going to give you a five second pause, silence to reflect on one idea from the show before you jump back into your busy life.

Ready and go.